S3 Ep, 209 Raising Boys to Men: Navigating Challenges and Building Strong Foundations

Speaker 1: Hello there, welcome to the World Cafe podcast. This podcast has been designed with created content that centers on the power of words. Can we really do anything without speaking? Can we really do anything without the agency of words? Yes, that is what this podcast is all about, and I am your host , amakri Isuboye, your neighborhood word trader. I believe in the power of words , for it is the unit of creation . I trade in words to profit my world, and we are back. Did we ever leave? Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, good everything. Yes, I will always begin the show by saying these words how are you? Has it been with you? Yes, it's not rhetorical, it's real. I always ask this question because the truth is, your well-being means a lot to me. Part of the reason why I'm here , or we are here, is because of you. This is a space where we come in to lean on one and other's experience, to do what Forge a positive path. Welcome to the World Cafe live show. It's been an amazing, amazing season. So what I'm going to be doing today, I'm super excited. You know why. I have some guests with me on the show and we'll be talking about boys to men, not the singers, don't worry. You know we're going to be talking about boys. There's been a lot of challenges around the male factor, the male essence globally, the male factor, the male essence globally, and if you look at it for the past 10 years, uh, there's been this I would use the word not loosely, but carefully attack on the male essence, and it's like the male essence is shrinking and within the society, you come to see that there is this, what I call it imbalance. You know, life, or the world, is all about balance. When one quantity becomes bigger, it upturns the society and you begin to see things go like my, my friend will say the abnormal becomes normal and the normal becomes abnormal. There's this confusion. All right, then, that is what we're here to talk about today, and I have this amazing, amazing , amazing, amazing guest. I'll just call their names and I'll allow them to introduce themselves. The first person I call him my leader. Don't worry, I won't tell you why I call him my leader. I mean, we've been together for a while now. Sometimes I think about, like, how long have I known him for? Well, I can't put a particular timeline to it, but I know, coming into the city of Abuja, where I presently live, he was about the first person. I mean I ran into myself and my wife and it has been an amazing experience with him. Is he a pastor? Is he a barrister? Don't worry, he's looted. I will, just for the purpose of this show, I will call him Pastor Ocholi. Speaker 2: You're welcome to the show, sir. Thank you, we'll come back to you. Okay, you'll introduce yourself formally All right. Speaker 1: And also we have Coach Ebuka. I got to meet him through Pastor Ocholy and Coach Ebuka is all out for the Boys to Men Club, if I want to use that word . You know he's all about boys training and all that, and I'll allow him to introduce himself when the time comes. But I'm going to start with Pastor Ocholy. Let's get to meet you, sir. Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, I don't know what else you want to know. Chuli Okutepa is my name, I'm a lawyer, I'm a teacher of the word. Yeah, we have great emphasis on relationships and marriage. Yeah, but you want to know more Basically? That's it. I'm married, yeah. Speaker 1: If you want to hear much about singles and married, he's a good person. He's your plug. He's been in that space forever , not just within Nigeria, now globally. I'm not saying this to just hype him. Speaker 3: It's the truth. Speaker 1: He has helped so many and he's helping so many by the help of God. Speaker 2: Thank God. Speaker 1: So basically, yeah, we're children, we're fine. Welcome. All right, let's meet you, coach. Speaker 3: Ibuka, thank you so much. Thank you for having me here. I'm Ibuka. They call me Coach Ibuka. I'm a boys development coach. I'm very passionate about raising boys to be the kind of men they need to be, and that's who I am. That's what I do. I'm married, I have biological children, I have foster children , and I'm just in the world of boys. Speaker 1: Amazing. Now we're going to start with that. You're in the world of boys. Why are you in the world of boys? Speaker 3: First, because that's what God has called me to do and secondly, because that's what I'm passionate about. I want to see there's a lot going on with our boys. There's a lot For me. I think there's been a silent negligence over the years which has really caused a lot of havoc that we are seeing today. We have our boys not giving a voice to be heard. They are going through issues they can't can talk. We have some societal construct that have just caged boys in a way that they know what to do, they can take care of themselves , all is well, and we've gotten to a time where we've seen that all is actually not well. The boys we thought that we are okay are ending up becoming what we can't, you know, even imagine, and everybody's suffering from the ripple effect of that. So I'm really passionate to see boys become what God wants them to be. Emotionally they are struggling , sexually they are struggling. They have questions that society is not answering and unfortunately they are going to the internet, they are going to celebrities to answer those questions for them and we are seeing that deformity among them sexually, in gender, in their thoughts, in their pattern, in their way of life, lifestyle, and we keep wondering do we even have men that we can pass this baton to? Do we still have leaders and husbands and fathers that will really take the baton of leadership in families and all boys down to how we are raising our boys? And until we begin to answer this question and begin to model to these boys the kind of men they need to really be, we are really in for a big problem. Speaker 1: I'll hold you to that . Now he says something about fatherhood, the male factor within the space of marriage, which you are predominantly as in. You're strong there, would you say. The male essence is being threatened. Speaker 2: If you say it's being threatened, then you are being kind. It's no longer the realm of threat, it's being flushed away. Okay, so threat is maybe 200 years ago. At this point, whatever was threatening it is having it ago. At this point, whatever was threatening it is having it Because, you see, the definition or the concept of the male essence is already lost. So an average male right now lives a life that is not the life he was supposed to live. So you see, an average male right now is a hustler. So you can't combine hustling with your essence. Okay, so it's like talking to a person who is focused on survival and you are telling him to fulfill his role in life. You know, survival and fulfilling his role in life does not go together. So you see, this hustle, this try to. So if Kote Buka speaks now, you hear things like neglect. You know so. Neglect is even the one we can see. What of the one that is present , absent, because by the time he returns there is nothing left of who he is to pass to anybody. He's finished. So we have not questioned those things and those are things we should question. So the man himself does not even know the definition of what it means to be a man, because the man himself is caught up in another definition. So that's why the easiest thing you see a father tell a child in this generation is how he pays school fees, how he puts a roof over their head you bargain for it. I was not there. When you saw a woman, I was not there. When you pay school fees, how you put a roof over their head you bargained for it. I was not there. When you saw a woman, I was not there. When you chased a woman, I was not there. When you decided to give a belay, I was not there. Well, your global audience will not understand that. When you decided to impress me, I was not there. You applied for me. I had no impute. I did not apply for the job. I I did not apply for the job. I did not apply to come to your family. All of those things you are mentioning are basic. So when you take that away from an average man, what is left? And that's why I say, if a scholarship can do all you can do, you are just a sponsor, not a father. Speaker 1: So now you kept using those words, we the role. How do we get this back? Because most men, as it were, falls under the mold of what you have just described, not knowing that it is beyond paying bills. Speaker 2: Well, it begins from watching this particular episode a hundred times, because you don't have the capacity to change what you have not questioned. So most men need to question the concept of all they have become or all they are All right . So it begins with that. So you watch an episode like this and you give it thought, you allow it to dominate your contemplation, because until it dominates your contemplation, you're not going to change it. And you see, somebody may be seeing this and your first reaction is a defense. Your problem is deep, because that's what men do to truth. So you're watching this and you're like you don't know the bills I have to pay, you don't know, you don't know, you don't know, you don't know. And now, in the biblical context , I've been asking a question. God commenced Adam's journey in Eden. I will be a failure to chase Eden all my life. He commenced Adam in Eden, where it was all provided for. In essence, his true essence is beyond survival. So I need to question all the journey I have made to try to arrive at Eden. Why am I not operating from Eden? Why am I spending my life trying to get to Eden? And that's why, all his days, his toil is a waste. So he gets to the point where he gets things but loses him. Speaker 3: He gets things and loses him, him, he gets things and loses them Now Koche Buka. Speaker 1: I mean, you've been dealing with this factor, boys coming to you, confiding in you and trusting you with certain information. There's this word that has been in the public space for far too long and we've been hearing it. They call it male masculine. What's that? Chauvinist, not chauvinist? No, what's her name? Usually uses it Bowens. It's like making the male masculine bias or something toxic masculinity. Thank you, yes and it's like hello, where did we get that from? Do you think that definition is part of what is affecting the way our boys are behaving or turning out? Speaker 3: Yeah, it might be part of it, but the problem is even bigger than that and I keep saying that it takes a man to raise a boy. I think the major challenge a lot of the boys are having because most boys will come to me and share certain things and the question they'll ask me who do I watch to understand these thing you are saying and become? Because I think one of the greatest service we do to boys is to tell them to become what another man has not modelled to that boy. So a lot of boys are in the place where this thing you are saying I don't understand it because I've not seen it in my dad, in my uncle or in the men around me. So it's as if you are speaking mysteries and a boy can never become what he has not seen, no matter how you talk and explain and advise. They must see it. What they behold is what they become. So we are seeing a society where men are it's just a vicious circle of broken men, Because you keep asking yourself really, where would they find that man? So it's a deep crisis really that we really need to trust God to really find our way out of it. So that is the challenge most boys are facing, and also in a society where every man is evil, every man is irresponsible, every man is these men are evil men, are that? Oh, what they're hearing is toxic masculinity. So, in their mind, oh really, and if you are not that, so that means you are not a man. And it's as if some men have accepted oh, this is who we are, since that's what you want us to be, less so it's just a crisis that I feel for a lot of these boys. So we have to come to a place where we are asking, really, beyond talking to these boys, how can we model, how can we show place where we are asking, really beyond talking to these boys, how can we model, how can we show them what we are saying? So they're in a fix, they are stuck, Like I can't comprehend what you are saying, because I can see a man showing and the society is not even helping, Because there are phases where every man is this, every man is that. I will come to a part where, okay, for you to be accepted as a man, you now have to act like a girl. You now have to change your dress. You have to do certain things to be accepted. You have to conform. You have to be on TikTok wearing bonnet and twerking or you have to do a comedy as a man and dress like a woman. Then you are now accepted, it's fine. You have to turn to your gender and you now have 1 million followers, because when you are okay as a man you are toxic, but when you are distorted, then we can laugh with you and play with you. You know we think it's a joke, but we are coming to that point. I mean dysfunctionality. Speaker 1: Yeah, because listening to you now is like leaving who I am to embrace who I am not. So the society will accept me, but in accepting me I have created this vacuum, vacuum so much that something must feel it , of course. Now I know you're a person of faith. Where do you think a person of faith as in as a Christian? Where do you think the church has missed it or can come in to cover? Of faith as a Christian? Where do you think the church has missed it or can come in to cover for this deficit, this deficiency we are experiencing now? Speaker 3: Very good question. I keep saying that you cannot fight a battle you are not aware of and you cannot win a battle you are not prepared for. And the truth is that the fight against the male seed didn't start today. From the time of Moses, kill every male seed the time of Jesus. Why is the enemy interested in the male seed? Speaker 1: Why. Speaker 3: Why? Because the enemy understands the power of God, especially when it comes to the family. Once he's able to get a family, everybody in society is a product of the family, and who is the head of the home? The man. So how can we ruin the world? Let's get the family. How can we destroy the family? Let's get the men. How do we get the men to get to their foundation? And that's why the devil has been fighting long ago. Deal with the issue, go to the root and destroy. Once we do that, we have scattered the family. So a lot of families are like what are called beautiful monsters very beautiful home, but without roof. You know, it's beaten by the rain, it's cut by the sun, and that's what we are seeing. Where can the church come in? The church need to understand the depth of the fight If we don't even understand like it's so clear. God has even made it so simple for us to see. There's a huge, there's a. There is a big battle here and it started long ago. If we must win, then we must help our male seed. So we see in churches, where you know, you can even see it, even when you come for men's program, the judges say, ah, ah. What's happening? What do we want to tell us? You know, and the churches won't get into that, you know they don't come now, it's okay, let's all just deal with the ones that we are seeing. So we need to know there's an issue here. How can we get our men to talk? How can we begin to get our boys to have conversations? We need to see the church leading that conversation, getting our men accountable. Like I've had to go to some churches, they're literally begging men to come for parents' conference, to come for this. They say is he PTA, is he school? Even the PTA is becoming a mother's teacher's association because the men are not available. So if the church has the leadership, as pastors, as leaders, let's get our men accountable. We can get them accountable for insisting they're around having the right conversation. Conversation if they are not coming on other days, can we have it in church services? Okay, women, let's go to this. I mean, let's talk, whatever we can do. But at the same time, if you are not aware of the battle and how deep it is, you will not pay the sacrifice and go all the way to ensure that we deal with it awareness, consciousness. Speaker 1: Then you create a strategy. That's what I'm hearing Now. I saw this scripture and I was sharing it with my wife. I was blown away. Baritha, you know that very well. Sorry, guys, if I interchange pastor Baritha. Speaker 3: Don't mind me. Speaker 1: Now he said he, here is Paul. He said and you fathers he was very specific. He was very specific. He was very particular and the way he put it I'm just trying to summarize it More or less is that it is your responsibility to bring up to train. And when I went to check up that word train, it was amazing. I've talked about it on the show before the train. When you say train, what comes to our mind is that long thing that moves on a track. That isn't the train. The train is that front engine that carries all the cars. So as long as the train has the capacity, is efficient, you can put 10, 15, 20 cars behind the train. We'll pull it. It changed my mind completely. Now how, from what he has said, now in our way, creating the strategy, then we marshal it. How do we knock this into the man? Because most of the things, sometimes when I close my eyes and I imagine my father is late, I imagine my father. I see myself do certain things and I catch myself. This was what my dad used to do he more or less imprinted on me . How do we get this message across to the man? Speaker 2: Are you sure you're asking me that question? You're looking for trouble Because I'm about to go against the entire institution. Please go ahead, because I'm not the enemy of the church, guys. But you see, the church is joking. The church itself has fallen into the trap men have fallen into. Who leads the church Men? The church itself has lost priority. I'm sorry. You see, we can cry all day. You can put a man on the pedestal and ask him a simple question and the answer will be completely disastrous. He goes one full year in the church when no attention was paid to the crisis we see on our hand. Why? Why do you think the commonest debate in the church, in the public space, is about tight? Because the church itself is in a survivor mode. It's more about money. Who is caring for which soul? Wait, you think it's your big seat, so you want to sit down and say it's not running his family. Well, you're so heavy, say I bless my son, he's down there, shamba, end of story. You don't care for his soul. It's not in the content of your teaching. You're not challenging him. You're not putting it in the curriculum of your teaching. You are not challenging him. You are not putting it in the curriculum of your message. Let's assume you don't have the energy to do that. You don't bring those that God has graced to come and do it. So you go through a lot of churches, you go through the curriculum for the year. They just manage and give one men's fellowship Sunday, where the same broken people you should be helping fix, run whatever. So we'll come up, men will tie ghillie and do the things women used to do. We have fun, we laugh, we are gone. How many churches have strong men's fellowship? How much are we doing towards this critical person in this marriage institution? Go and speak to pastors. How many wives are coming for counseling? So until we come to that point, then we are not even planning to find a strategy to deal with a problem we know. So it's institutional because the people who need the most of the solution lead the pack and are not paying attention to deal with it decisively. Because in most set up, if the set man decides to spearhead the conversation himself, men will regard it and move to it. If, within the curriculum of our worship service, we pay attention to subjects like this and make it central, we will deal with stuff. So we are dealing with conversations that we are not ready for. We are not even ready for it, we are not. Speaker 1: So, guys, we're not here to attack anybody, but we are here to introspect yeah to look at ourselves. Obviously you can see we're all guys here and we're people of faith. That's the truth. So we're having this what, what I call it a family conversation for men. We're not looking down on the women, don't get it wrong, because even the women are praying that the men will take their role. So, kotebuka, piggyback on what Barista just said, something happened. You know, my wife called my attention. Like in church, I work with teenagers also and the teens church. We have two services in church the teens closes before with the first service, the second service we don't have anything where we are back in church. So she was like she had noticed that I sit during second service alone. My boys are, because I have two boys and a girl. Two of them are teenagers now, as in they fall within the bracket of teen age according to our categorization in church. So they're the teen's church. He said I think you should call them and sit with them, like during second service, which is more of worship and prayers and all of that. Now, what I saw from what she said, I always play it back. I remember those days growing up with my mom. When we go to church she drags us and sits us down. You fall asleep, no problem, you sit here, you're going nowhere. You wake up and most times we wake up when the grace is about to be said. We just hear that organ play say, yes, grace is about to be said. We just hear that organ place, yes, church is about to close. But hello, those services planted seeds in us that today we are able to like stand. You think our services should be changed, remodeled, to answer these questions thank you very much. Speaker 3: That's a very powerful question, um. I was talking to a group of boys. Sometimes they go on faith and one of the things they told me is, um, that most churches are not answering their question. I think some of our children have grown the knowledge bank of some churches or even some homes. We're not. Let me talk about the teens church, because that's where most of our boys are. Barista is facing the men. Speaker 1: Yes, he is I'm facing boys Because we're not having some conversations. Speaker 3: Barista is facing the men. Yes, he is. I'm facing boys, all right, because we're not having some conversations Like I go to handle some cases and I'm like you mean, you've not heard this before. I see boys who don't even know what to do when they're overwhelmed with their emotions. I see boys who are not even aware of what is going on with sexual and gender distortion. They are not even aware of certain things and the truth is a lot of our schools are already bought over. Some are just looking for how to make ends meet. Alright, so the major hope of the family now is the church, alright. So I think a lot of our churches have had grown huge churches, the knowledge bank. Our children have all grown the knowledge bank of what it is. We need to be informed, we need to be current, we need to deal with the issues that pertain to them, and all these things are in the Bible. You can talk about sexuality and gender confusion and bring scriptural examples. You can deal with the issues they are facing emotionally and bring scriptural examples, issues going on in the family, and bring. I see some churches you know the youth church are trying to follow the mandate of the main church, the 12 pillars. This month they are talking about prosperity, so the youth church. You must talk about this and we are not meeting the needs and that's why our children grow up and they are not even interested in what is going on in the church. Let's just get out, let me just leave here. I had a case of a boy who traveled abroad and he sent me a mail and said ah, I don't think I believe in god. I think what we have been learning there does not exist are you serious? you know, because I just discovered we didn't meet his need. You know, he got to a place where he discovered I was not just oh, people are not praying here and things working, so it just felt all we have been doing is just to pray to get things. So when things are working I shouldn't pray. So when able to help them understand God in depth at the time we're there. I think there needs to be an overhauling of curriculum for what our children, our teenagers , are learning in churches Overhauling Over, just are learning in churches, overhauling, overhauling Like we have cartoons where we are seeing two parents as men, two parents as women, things happening. I think the church needs to be aware and our children, because even in schools they haven't refined the definition of family we need, and this is the only place where we can tell them the truth. This is what the scripture is saying, this is what is happening. So we see children who just go to the word and somebody just telling something, they are held over heels, oh really, they are overwhelmed because they are not aware. We must begin to equip them and tell them what is needed for the time. Speaker 1: So, guys, sorry, sorry, I'm fiddling with my phone. That's because there's something I want to bring out. Yeah, based on what coach just said now, and some of us will think we are attacking the church- and I'm going to follow up with barrister on this. Now. Paul said something in ephesians, chapter 3, verse 10. He said his intent was that now , through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms. And if I understand that correctly, if I want to put it in context, there is a realm that controls this realm Absolutely. And when I teach that realm, or when I teach the gatekeepers of that realm, the manifold wisdom of God, it reflects in this dimension and the church has been mandated to do that. And from what he just said now and the scriptures I just read now, how do we teach the manifold wisdom in this context? Speaker 2: Great, great, great, great great. That's what we are doing, right here, that's exactly what is going on here. So you see, we, we must, we must come to that point where we realize that knowledge is not the problem. Today. If I was speaking to somebody, I'm like people talk about certifications, qualifications. Today you don't need any formal institute. No, you don't. Information is abundant. What is scarce is revelation, because revelation is information taken at another level. So, you see, no man has an excuse to fail. Let me even start there. So, as much as we talked about institutional failure, because you can be in a church and outgrow the church. God placed you there because he gives you pastors after his heart. The pastor will face his judgment for not going to the level God wants him to go to, but you can be there where God planted you and still have access. Of course, it's controlled access, because God has to guide your heart. It's a generation of so much information, so much so it is not for want of it. For instance, you don't have to tell me the investment that is going into what cafe. A lot is going on. Why? Because you sense a call in your heart to put something out there. It may not be the trending topic, but it's a needed topic. So once people get that alright . So for the people in the cold space, we must continue to speak , whether it is a trending thing or it is not, to fulfill our own assignment. So I urge everybody who is in that space to continue to do Then. For those who need to receive, you have no excuse. To whom much is given, much is expected. I remember there was a time when I was in Makodi. At the time, a picture of TD Jakes got into Makodi because we were growing up and we had guys who did graphics, who did video this, and somebody was claiming this particular picture. It was him who brought it to Benue Picture Because somebody used it on a magazine, somebody used it on this, so he was getting angry. He said it was him because we were dealing with time of disk. So he downloaded it from somewhere and brought it to the whole of Benue State Picture picture. Right now, if I want 1,000 pictures of TDJs, every angle, sitting down, standing, lying down, I will find it. If I can't even find it, I will AI generate it, yes. So what excuse does anybody have If you, today? Today, I will find it. If I can't even find it, I will AI generate it, yes. So what excuse does anybody have. If you today today, of course, you should be deciding If you go online and want to focus on conversations like this or any conversation, and you search my smear of blessed memory is still talking, true how many episodes have you shot on critical areas ? So even to everybody watching? That's why I said until you pluck the man from that survivor mode, because a man who is strictly survivor mode, he's not going to pay attention to a book, to a video, to a podcast, to an audio. So on both sides, there's no excuse. What we are referring to is we do not have a critical mass, both of those speaking and of those receiving. So there's no excuse. Really, the solution already exists. We just need to continue to amplify it from this side and amplify it from the side of the recipients so that I can sit down. If I'm a man watching this, I may not be caught into this space exactly, but am I paying enough attention to better my own life, starting from my biological children to my foster children or to whoever God gives me influence over? If that's all I do, I have done well enough, absolutely yeah. Speaker 1: Guys, survival mode is a big distraction. It takes away the oxygen from the conversation. It starves you. So, as a man, you need to wake up. That's what I'm hearing here. I'm a man and I tell you for free, I know it. Recently I told myself, not minding my schedule, not minding my programs. I want to be more at home, as in, I want my children to see me more. You get me as in after work. I come home, be more present. Somebody say what has that got to do with what we're talking about? because my presence models a lot absolutely my presence models a lot, and that's what I think we are saying here. We need to look inwards. There's a reason for this in words. There's a reason for this. Koche Buka. I understand where time is not our friend, you know, when it comes to discussing certain issues. When you look at it it's like okay, one hour, two hours, but when you check the time it's like we've gone so far. Now, what do you think, beyond what we are talking about now, over and beyond the resources we need to help this conversation and drive it home, create that balance, what do you think we need? Speaker 3: When it has to do with boys, I want to talk about it. When it has to do with boys, I want to talk about it sincerely. The major thing we need is other young resources. First of all, I keep saying boys need men. They can really, you know, see to model. But I'm also in that dilemma where access say we are the men really, they really, and that's why we've just been talking and pushing, and beyond that, there are a lot of books, there are a lot of resources, you know, out there for our boys to learn. I keep telling them in as much as we have these issues. There are still a lot of men out there who have not defied themselves, who are still standing tall, who are still holding the fort and we can find them. We have to be intentional, have to be deliberate about them who are still holding the fort and we can find them. We have to be intentional, have to be deliberate about them. There are still teachers out there, there are still pastors out there that are ready to hold your hands through the journey and say this is what you are going through. So, even as we keep building and speaking to the men to wake up to that reality, a lot of them. It is as if you are telling somebody who is 35 to go back and change the way he has been living his life for 35 years. It's a whole lot. It's a whole whole lot, but we can begin to deal with it from the foundation. So there are a few men out there as we keep working on others and the workload might be so much on you, but you know one man, yeah, mentoring 10 boys , 20 boys, just looking at you, hearing you, you know, encouraging you, and there are resources out there. I was shocked to see a lot of you know resources. Are there books out there where men can read? I have like 10 books, you know, for men and I've seen others for boys present. I've written like 15 books for boys. So there are things out there that we can begin to leverage on , even as we work on ourselves. Boys. So there are things out there that we can begin to leverage on even as we work on ourselves, and I want to tell everybody how they take advantage of them their podcasts, their videos, their resources. If you really want to do the work, there are things out there and we must begin to leverage on them Parents, boys, women around, sometimes even the women that are available to even raise the voice or do the work, even though there are limitations. But the little you can do, that man you can bring around to help him see what we're talking about. Let's just start from there and with that one person, two persons, we keep seeing the world growing and expanding and we are changing the narrative in that direction. Speaker 1: You just raised the question of collaboration. Yeah, absolutely, Barista. How do we strengthen our collaborations? Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we need to admit that we need collaborations Absolutely, because you can't strengthen what you don't value Absolutely, so you strengthen it, because you value it. So we need to know that there's a big need for collaboration. And, you see, it takes humility because you come to that point where you realize I can't do it all. You know so proudly. I sent my son to Koche Buka. I mean both the boot camps, trainings, but personally, like I just call him up like this, your boy needs some attention. I mean beyond what I can say now. So, yes, I'm his father, fine, but you exist in his life, in this space, so I can say he's coming yes, I'm his father, fine , but you exist in his life, in this space, so I can say he's coming to spend some hours with you, right? So we must see value. We must see that none of us is all-knowing, all-sufficient. Our wives have a role to play, society has a role to play. Teachers have a role to play. You know, like Coach Ebuca said earlier, parent-teacher association or forum now looks like mothers teachers association. You know, no, we must realize that we are dealing with a complex system. So an average man who's got children has his wife or the mother of the children, has the school system, has the church system, has society, has neighbors, has a school system, has a church system, has society , has neighbors, right. So we must work with all of this to make sure we deliver a full result. Back in the day they would tell you that in Africa it's the community that raises a child not, you know, just the parents, and that's very true. So we must collaborate with systems that make sure you know you shared something with me during the last long holiday and I was impressed. I mean you shared something with me during the last long holiday and I was impressed. I mean you got your sons to work at a facility. Exactly so they worked. I mean they're teenagers and they took up the road, they volunteered and they served. This is a major supermarket. So you're wondering, like that's a lot of value. So we must. That's collaboration. Yes, it is, because collaboration, I mean, runs deep . The system exists. They have a structure. You put them there to lend some value, and I heard this is not verified. I heard on good authority that the owner of McDonald's, all his children, actually serve through the franchise. The way we serve in NYC and Nigeria, like have a time of service. That the owner of McDonald's, all his children, actually served through the franchise. I heard that too. The way we serve in NYC, in Nigeria, like have a time of service. And at each location where they served, the managers and staff were not permitted to treat them specially Work like every other person. I mean there's some value being passed down there. Speaker 1: Amazing Guys. I wish I can keep this conversation on, but the truth is it's Amazing Guys. I wish I can keep this conversation on and all that, but the truth is it's all about creating the catalyst generating that conversation, you know, provoking you in the right direction so that you take responsibility. Now we just landed on collaboration and I want to speak to that because a good number of us out there organizations, individuals you are looking for a good, what I call it partner or people to collaborate with. Coach Ebuka is here. Pastor Choli is here. Pastor Choli, like I said, is into the singles and married ministry. I've known him for more than 12 years now. He's been in that space and growing. Coach Ebukay is in the space of mentoring boys and all of that. We can reach out, collaborate with them. You know like collaborate with them, with them, you know like collaborate with you, with them. We're here to see that, no matter how minute, small that contribution is, we know what a catalyst can do in a reaction. For those of us who understand what I'm talking about, I did biochemistry in school you know when you want to speed up a reaction, you introduce a catalyst or an enzyme, no matter how minute it is the minute it gets into the reaction. Go to sleep. You see the chain effect and it begins to happen. This is what we are all doing here. So I speak to you out there, reach out. There are good spots to collaborate with. There are good what I use the word institutions or organizations or individuals, spiritual individuals you can collaborate with to like drive this conversation Our families, our children. They need help, not to overflow the issue, but we'll soon call it a day here now, but I need to hear some last words from Coach Ebuka. Speaker 3: Thank you very much. It's been an interesting conversation. Some time ago we were having a training and a man said why are you asking me not to hit, not to beat my boy? See the marks on my head. My father broke my head. That's why I'm correct, so I need to break this boy's head so that he will also be correct. And I said if you're a man and you think you need to break your child's head, I understand a lot of men in that perspective. For you to be correct, it means something is wrong, son. Speaker 1: We must accept. Speaker 3: We must dismantle limiting beliefs where we are coming from and drop those baggages so that we can raise the children that we need. And I want to say to everybody out there, I'm overwhelmed when I hear them ask questions, go through issues, see men, young boys come. We cry distorted because the father is absent, he's not present, he's not talking and the mothers are the ones raising them. I see a lot of feminized boys. They are not able to really become what God wants them to be . My heart goes out to them. I want to say it's unfair that boys are going through seasons of life and there's no man to walk them through that journey. That's why I become like a perfect high priest as a man, because you've gone All that faith and God expresses to guide your son. Let's be available for our boys . Let's be available for them, not neglecting the girls Absolutely. Speaker 1: Last words from you, sir. Speaker 2: You want last words? That'd be wicked. Share this podcast. Speaker 1: Thank you sir. Speaker 2: Just share it. Select like 100 men. Yeah, Harass them with it for 10 street days Every day. Just share the link. Share the link again. Share the link. Share the video. One last word Go and share the video. Speaker 1: Thank you. You know, koche Buka said something that something just came to my mind. Like you know, growing up, yes, we had this generation of our parents disciplining us by way of, either, you know, stroking, belting and all of that. I would say they didn't know better. But now I do something with my kids, and this is what I do with my kids. When they do something wrong, I look at them in the eyes and tell them you're a wise child, you are a wise child, you are a wise child. I don't use the word foolish, I don't use the word what's wrong with you. I tell you you should know better. Speaker 3: Absolutely. Speaker 1: You should know better. Daddy believes in you, your mom believes in you. This thing you just did, now you should do better. And I see the reaction on their faces. I see it Like you don't have to get so physical. So it just came back to me. So I always use those words and words are powerful, very powerful Guys. You know how we say it on the show. I believe in the power of words . Why? Because it is the unit of creation. You will agree with me. We've had this amazing conversation and, uh, this is what the world cafe is all about bringing certain, uh, topical questions, discussions, and we have it here. The idea is not to name and shame, but the idea is to create that awareness and put you in that mode to take the necessary actions and see these turning points all around you. Well, you know, on the show, we've told ourselves, each time we have our guests, we're going to gift them with something. And we have our true pillows here from the World Cafe. You know, these pillows, you can put them in your car, you can put them by your side as you lay your head and the words are just streaming through you and all of that this is our way of saying thank you for coming on the show. Thank you, thank you. Speaker 3: I really appreciate it thank you, thank you so much. I am most grateful. Thank you, thank you, I really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you . Speaker 1: Thank you. I am most grateful, you know, for the two of you accepting our invitation to come on the show to do this with us. It means a lot to us. So, guys, I have to go now, we have to go now, but you know how we do it. We will, we do it. We will always come back to have amazing conversations. Yeah, yes, my, my producer will always tell me, don't forget to tell them, go ahead. We have our social media handle and, I beg your pardon, handles x, instagram, linkedin, tiktok and the ones that are yet to come. Go ahead, go, follow us, listen to our conversations, you know, and, uh, you will not regret it . Yes, even on youtube. Go ahead, subscribe, listen, press that notification button when new contents come, so that you will follow on on this conversation. Ah, I'm excited, I'm happy. You know why the future is bright, it's amazing. All right, then, until I come your way again, my name is Amakri, amakri Soboje. Bye for now, thank you Thank you Bye. Bye. Awesome time it has been with you on the World Cafe podcast today. Thank you for being there. You can catch me up on my social media handles Twitter, facebook, linkedin and Instagram all at Amakri Isoboye. Also, you can get copies of my books A Cocktail of Words, the Color of Words by HRR Notebook and Hawkers Focus on God on Amazon and Roving Heights online bookstores. You can also subscribe to my YouTube channel at the same address at Amakri Issawe. I love to hear from you and how this podcast has impacted you. You can leave me a message at my email address amakrigaribaldi at gmailcom. That is A-M-A-C-H-R-E-E-E-G-A-R-I-B-A-L-D-I . Yes, till I come your way again . Bye for now.