S3 Ep.196 Finding Fulfillment: Strategic Career Transitions with Nike Akerele D'Souza

Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to the World Cafe podcast. This podcast has been designed with curated content that centers on the power of words. Can we really do anything without speaking? Can we really do anything without the agency of words? Yes, that is what this podcast is all about, and I am your host , amakri Isowoye, your neighborhood word trader. I believe in the power of words , for it is the unit of creation . I trade in words to profit my world. Hello people, how are you all doing? You are welcome to the World Cafe live show. How do we begin this? You know how we begin this Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, good, everything. Wherever you are, join in for Amin listening to us on this show. How are you doing? Yes, it's been a wonderful, wonderful season. Yes, celebrations are over and we are back. Yes, work is here again, life is here again. What are we doing here this evening? You're wondering. You know we're back to have that wonderful discussion. You know how we do within the cafe. We come in to lean on one another. You know, and glean you know from our experiences to like leave. You know purposefully. I have a wonderful personality on the show, don't worry. Yes, you're seeing the name already. I'll bring her on very soon. And we're going to be talking about something that is very juicy transitioning. Yes, it's all over. I mean, it's a buzzword now. If you turn on the news, pick up the newspaper, you go on net, you just see that word transition, transition, energy transition, black transition, career transition. So we're talking about, yes, career transition, and I have a wonderful person that will do this, do justice to it. Her name is Nike Akerele D'Souza. Where is she, you're wondering? Yes, there she is. Hello, nike, good evening. Speaker 2: Good evening, Amakris . Good to see you. Speaker 1: Pleasure pleasure. Good to have you on the show this evening. Where are you joining us from? Let our audience know where you're joining us from. Speaker 2: I'm currently based out of the UK, out of London, so um it's dark, it's cold, it's miserable and many people today and lots of rain. So it's not, it's not great, it's not great you're welcome. Speaker 1: Well, back here in nigeria we have what we call hamatan. You can liken it to our own winter. It's been windy at night, pretty cold during the day, you know, depending on where you are in the country, like if you're down south or at the middle the middle is the capital. I mean during the afternoon it's pretty hot, pretty hot, then towards evening it drops, then at night pretty chilly. I mean, so well, it's pretty hot, pretty hot, then towards evening it dropped, then at night pretty chilly. I mean so well, we are all here . So you are welcome, good to have you. Who is Nike? Akerele Desusa? Speaker 2: Wow, okay, again, thanks for having me and I'm really excited to be here to talk about careers and transitioning and I'm hoping that my I'm German but based out of the UK uh, born and raised in the UK, but I've spent the last 25 years or so in Nigeria, so I just moved to the UK and I do miss being in Nigeria, I must confess. Um, so I'm a real negotiation at heart. I must say I'm a real negotiation at heart. So yeah, um, yes, so I. I recently, as I said, moved back to the UK, um, and I'll tell you a little bit more about that later as well, but I have spent a good part of my career really just floating between the US, nigeria and the UK, but pretty much a lot out of Nigeria . A big bulk of my career was based out of Nigeria, but I'm more than happy to share more about what I've done over the last 30 years of my career. Speaker 1: Macri is amazing 30 years, three weekends, whoa, that is huge. Speaker 2: It makes me feel really old. Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Speaker 2: It's gone very fast. It's gone very fast, it's gone very fast. Still very much young at heart. Speaker 1: I can imagine. I can imagine from your voice. I mean, one can feel that life from your voice. You know. Now, when I look at your profile, I don't know how best to describe you. I just said this is a powerhouse of human capital development, because that is what is written all over your profile. You've been from accountant to business administration and all that, but the underlying tone to your main profile is human capital development. How did you get into that space ? Speaker 2: So, yes, so my career started probably about just over 30 years ago, essentially out of the US, and my background was very much in accounting. I went to uni and I studied accounting and that was what you know, my dad and you know that was what was in, and you know know I became an accountant, got all my certifications and stuff . So I did a lot of work, working for some consulting firms in the US for several years and that was good. I picked up a lot of skills etc . But I really then felt that I wanted to do a lot more. Then came in to Nigeria and worked for the global firm of Arthur Anderson, which soon became KPMG, and I spent a lot of time there, also continuing my career in terms of providing business advisory services and audit and accounting services. So still going on with my accounting background. But as I grew in the firm, I really realized that, as much as it was a natural skill for me, I was very comfortable with numbers and I loved the variety of working with different sectors. I've done gold fields in Ghana, I've done banks, I've done all sorts of things, but one of the things I really enjoyed doing was increasingly some of the work I was doing in the sort of social impact, NGO HR side. So I did started doing a lot of work with clients, consulting on their human capital, their human resources and their talent management and recruiting for them and developing HR systems, hr systems and I realized quite quickly then that really and truly maybe this was the beginning of one of my transitions, in the sense that I didn't want to do accounting and balancing balance sheets and stuff anymore. I really wanted to focus on the human beings in organizations and all that. So that was really where my journey started, my first major transition, I think probably after about 15 years in the accounting field, consulting field, I went into, decided to stop being an employee and then decided to be an employer of labor myself. So it was my first entrepreneurial venture and so it was a huge, huge, huge transition for me because I was so comfortable working with other organizations I didn't know how to run a business. So I then transitioned and I started two new businesses focused on human resources, looking at recruiting the best talent for companies. So I work with local indigenous companies, international multinationals, pretty much really just bringing in top talent into their organizations from quite junior levels but increasingly over the years into executive levels. So a lot of organizations that started, like in the telecom sector. During that period I did a lot of talent work for them, bringing in a lot of new employees into those organizations and outsourcing. So whilst they were setting up I was able to provide as much as 200, 300 middle to upper level talent into those organizations to start them up. That was my journey in terms of really loving the work I was doing in HR. So I would say that was my first major transition, you know , transitioning from being an employee to that of being an employer, labor, so that whole journey of looking for new clients under your own name. So I didn't have the brand of KPMG where I had exited from anymore, it was just Nikkei. So what next? What do I do next with me? as an individual. It was just naked. So what next? What do I do next with me as an individual? Yeah, so that was really where my journey to human capital development started. So that really was my start when I transitioned into starting two businesses People Prime and People Temp in human resources. Speaker 1: So what was it like moving from what I would call the comfort quote unquote. You know that place, you're so comfortable doing your thing, but all of a sudden you felt that prompting it's like this is not it, this is not it. I mean, I need to move. What was it like? What did you really do? Did you just wake up one morning and say enough is enough , I need to move to another thing? What was it like? Speaker 2: No, preparation is so key, makri. I think that we all get this after, especially after you've worked for many years and you are getting to a point. Maybe you're at a manager level or senior manager, but anyway you've done more than 10 years and you then start reflecting on your career. Where do I want to go with this ? Do I want to stay in the company that I'm in? In my case, I was looking at partnership very close by and I was thinking do I want to stay as a partner in an audit firm or did I want to go out and do something else? And I felt that like literally after 15 years of advising other clients, could I go and do this on my own? And I really felt a thirst to do something different. I think for me, the triggers were the fact that it was clear to me after a lot of self-reflection that I didn't want to spend my life doing audits and balancing books. It was a skill that I had, but it wasn't where I wanted to spend. So we get a sense that maybe this is not what I want to do after we've reflected about what happens next. So there's a sense of dissatisfaction that you continuously have. You're not happy. You just get this feeling that you're going to work every day and you're doing your best, but it's not really what you want to do for the rest of your life or what you want to do next. So I went through a period of a lot of self-reflection and it took me about two to three years , and during that period, I started to think through what opportunities were there in the marketplace, once I realized that, okay, I didn't want to do accounting and audit anymore. So what next? What were the opportunities? So I started to talk to current clients. I started to talk to people around me and just reflect on what was I good at? What were the opportunities in the business space? What did I want to do next? And I think the human capital side came out quite obviously for me anyway, and so I did a lot of research. I started researching what were companies doing? What were the trends and the issues in the HR space at that time? Who were the providers of their service? What were they doing? What were they doing really well? What is it that they weren't doing? And I found gaps in that sector . So, for example, one of the reasons why I set up PeopleTemp, which was a huge organization providing a lot of startup personnel for companies was there was nobody really doing temping and outsourcing in a professional way, and I felt that that was a gap that I could fill, so doing a lot of research. So it took me two to three years at Macri. I didn't just make that move, you know. So there's a lot of legwork that needs to be done. Speaker 1: Yeah, that work kept coming out. You know research, research, research, research. But when you sit with colleagues or friends and they express their dissatisfaction and it's like I'm tired of doing this, I want to move to the next thing. And when you put these questions across to them, they feel like I don't. I really don't know. But have you done any research? You want to move. What have you been doing with yourself? What are you good at? What have you been doing? Nothing, you're just upset? No, but you know from what you're saying now yes, I'm dissatisfied, but it's not enough. I need to prepare, and part of the preparation is do a lot of research-led work. Now, in course of doing your research, was there any need for certification? Like maybe I need to add a new competence or something? Was there any need for that? Speaker 2: Absolutely so once you've done that self-reflection and you've done all the research et cetera, and you're able to narrow down what that next step should be and, by the way I'm actually, the next step could in fact be that you might even need to do just transition within the company that you're in. It could be a departmental change. Maybe you're moving from HR to sales, or it could be that you're moving from Nigeria to Kenya, to the US. Whatever those transitions are, the transitions don't necessarily have to be that you leave where you are to, you know , to go out elsewhere, because you may find, after a lot of that research and self-reflection, that staying where you are is the answer, but you just need to shift your career within where you are. So I mean, essentially, for me, I think that once I realized that I was moving from my core area, which was I'd spent 15 years in accounting and audits etc. And I was going completely into HR, and then I thought, well, a little bit of HR experience, because I've had a few clients and everything I then had to invest almost the first two years of when I started that business, with a lot of upscaling and risk. Yes, I had, I did. I mean I'm not saying that's for everybody, but you know I went to Lagos Business School. One of the courses that I took was the six months program in OMP owner management manager program to begin to work, convert myself from being an employee to an entrepreneur, employee to an entrepreneur. So what are the skills that I needed? The strategy skills, the business development skills, the marketing skills all the skills I needed from being to be a successful entrepreneur. And, at the same time, I invested a lot in HR courses. I just started. I was mopping up knowledge because we really have to reskill. You can't go into another sector without having acquired the knowledge and the skills and the exposure that you need and networking with people in that field and finding out what their problems and their issues and their needs and what are people doing, right or wrong. So there was a lot of investment, I think while I went into that, even the next transition that I did, which was even after my almost 15 years with People Prime in HR, while I was in HR, my heart just you know, as I was interviewing candidates for clients and I was exposed to a lot of young graduates looking for placements for graduate recruitments with multinationals and companies. I just would have these endless interviews at Macri and I would see really really bright young people, huge potentials, who were not able to, who just had serious skills gaps, in terms of not only technical subject skills gaps but employability skills and some of these things. So I did a lot of work around employability skills for young people, but I really had a burden to go back and start looking into the development space, what was happening in our environment, particularly Nigeria, that was generating young people coming out of university and who just simply didn't have the skills that they needed to succeed in the workforce. And so I decided to start doing a lot of work in the education sector, and I could talk a little bit about this later. But, yes, that then became my second transition and my upskilling. So when I then moved out of People Prime, the HR consulting firm, into the space I'm in right now, which is the development sector, the social impact sector, I then recently, once I took that decision, having worked in that field for a few years, I took a decision to take a one-year break, about a year and a half ago, to a master's degree in this new field that I had gotten into into the development sector, the international development. So I've just completed a master's degree in that sector and I've done a lot of courses, webinars et cetera just focused on the upskilling is absolutely critical you have to invest the time. Speaker 1: So I wasn't wrong after when I said I don't know the best way to describe this personality is a basket full of so many things, but underlying all of this is human capital development. You know you kept using those words rescaling, upscaling investment. So you were really intentional, so to say it's like this is what I want. But for me to move from point a to point b, I need to be intentional, purposeful, that this is what I'm supposed to do when I take this in it takes me to the next step, and from that next step I want to go to the next thing. So so, more or less transitioning is not wishful thinking. Speaker 2: No, it certainly isn't, and I think a lot of us get stuck in, especially when I would do a lot of career counseling. We get stuck in I wish I could do this, If only I did this. I wish I had the resources to do this and we stay in that space because we're too comfortable where we are and so we are either fearful, we are anxious about that uncertain next step. There are no guarantees that if you make this transition, if you put in the investments that it's going to work. Hopefully, if you've done some really good self-reflection, you've done some really good preparation, you've reinvested in upskilling yourself, there's a higher likelihood that that transition will be successful. However, there are no guarantees, and so absolutely key that we plan these stages of our lives, and the timing of the transitions is also critical . You have to know when it is to exit, when it starts getting a little bit too late. Well, I believe that it's never too late, but I think that there are times when those opportunities are best taken at that time taken at that time. Speaker 1: Now, self-reflection, another word I mean, another key sentence. You've been throwing out self-reflection, more or less it's like you have to know yourself, you have to know yourself. So it's a major, major, should I say issue in transitioning, you don't just wake up and move, you have to know yourself, self-reflection. So I think it's very key because from your I mean submissions, you kept using it. I carried out a self-reflection , asked myself one or two questions Is it right, is it time? Okay, is this the best? Is this what's happening out there in the market? How do I put myself and all that. But you know, a good number of us act out of anger or frustration. A good number of us act out of anger or frustration. We can't, should I say, translate that frustration and anger into self-reflecting. Let me ask me yes, I'm angry, no doubt about that. No, I'm upset, okay, but have you asked yourself the necessary questions? Now, there's been a lot of transition and going on as in, as a result of the global pandemic, and you know some are good, some are bad, some are ugly. What do you have to advise? As in, what do you think? How should we go about this season with the massive resignations and what have you, as they call it, the great resignation happening across the globe? What's your advice? Speaker 2: So I think the great resignations, as we call them, are really also as a result of the self-reflection. I think the COVID period really did give a lot of people across the world time to think and reflect, whether it was forced or not, because self-reflection is a choice, it's. It takes time and allow each individual to go back and start asking, you know, fundamental questions Is this what I want to be doing with my life? So questions around is this how I want to work? Is this the field I want to work in? Is what I'm doing having any impact at all? And I think that that period also made us more conscious about the impact of our lives on others and what was happening around us and how fragile things really are, and that has really helped. A lot of people do that self-reflection and decide, you know, do I move on? Do I want to do something else, do I want to work differently, et cetera, and so those changes are happening as a result of that. And I think that if you're an individual caught up in this, who may not have even resigned yet, but thinking through that period of thinking, well, you know what Maybe I really do need this isn't working for me, then that is 50% really of the journey the fact that you finally accepted that this is not working for me. I am not fulfilled and I'm not happy. So how do I then begin to manage that transition to something else? You may not necessarily know what that next step is, but you know that what you're doing or where you are at the moment, you're not happy or you're not satisfied, and please, let's make sure that we really have done the work to see whether or not we really are. It's not a feelings based thing . It is the fact that you've done a lot of self-reflection and you've come out the other end saying that I've ticked all the boxes. I've asked myself all the questions this is not working, what next? So what next then looks at, are you going to stay within where you are? Are you going to go out and do something else? What is that next thing going to be? When do you want to do it? When do you start planning for it? Because it's not about you're resigning now to do what you've got to have a plan. You've got to have a backup plan, unless you're really rich and you have a pocket of savings sitting somewhere, even if you're even if you're rich I mean you you won't. Speaker 1: you won't be docile, you'll be doing something with your time sitting somewhere. Even if you're rich, I mean you won't be docile, you'll be doing something with your time. Speaker 2: You have to use it. So what do you want to use your talent with your skills, your experience? You know where's your passion. What do you want to do with your life? Then, once you've come across all that, then you've got to start putting a plan in place to do that transition and then put a timeline. As I said, it took me two years to have a timeline. Each one of my major transitions has taken me more than a year. It's you know, I've had to put money aside, I've had to look at , you know, the re-scaling and stuff that needs to be done before I make the transition and what investments I need once I've made the transition. It is systematic, it has to be planned for and the resources and the time has to be there. And, of course, you have stakeholders. When I talk about stakeholders, you've got family, you've got friends, you've got key people and maybe a mentor or a coach who can help you through that journey, as to tell you that wait a minute, have you thought about this? Have you planned for this? Et cetera. So you need that support system when you're making those major transitions. And yes, and, by the way, I think that this COVID period has allowed us to see that there are opportunities, and you can see opportunities everywhere. Speaker 1: So, yes, yeah, out there, yes, very true, absolutely. Now, as a HR professional, as a HR professional, now, you know that we're grappling with a lot, you know out there. How best would you say the HR professional should respond to employees you know, who come with such questions like I'm tired of this, I want to move, I want to transit, I want to go to do something else. How best do you think the HR professional now should advise employees within organizations? Speaker 2: I think the first thing to do is that HR definitely has to be aware that there's a great resignation. I mean, it's happening in different ways in different countries. So whatever is happening in the US, the UK, etc. It's not necessarily what's happening across Africa or Nigeria. So we have to contextualize the exits and make sure that we are not imposing on ourselves things that may be happening in other areas of the world. And therefore an organization, an HR, would know what's happening within, or should know what is happening, and begin to proactively get a sense of what's happening in the organization. You know, get a feel of the pulse of the organization. Continue to stay close to the people that you know in the organization to get a feel of. You know, get a feel of the pulse of the organization. Continue to stay close to the people that you know in the organization to get a feel of. You know, are people leaving? Why are they leaving? You know the corridor conversations about how dissatisfied or not that people are going to be. Disconnected from that, because you need to understand the context of what is happening and then increasingly begin to identify, I think, the risky levels within your organization. So there are some levels within organizations where employees tend to exit fast, and so being able to identify those levels being able to tap to those individuals at that level, staying close to them, going back, you know, through the sort of talent management processes and the appraisal process, keeping close to what they're listening, listening to the voices of your employees more proactively so that you're able to flag any potential you know wave of people leaving or whether you're going to lose some of your top bright stars at different levels, you know. Just being able to, you know, monitor and manage that. But I also think that when individuals then begin to come back to us in HR and say you know what I've thought about my work and I think that I need to, I want to promotion to a certain level. I've been here five years. I want to do, I want to transition to a different department, a different area, a different location of the business, maybe out of the country, etc. I think it's important that HR works very closely with those individuals. One is to make sure that they are listening to them, they are able to work with them to find solutions to those transitions. And if there are individuals that are moving from, doing major transitions within the organization so, for example, moving into senior management, moving into leadership and some people already in leadership going to the board level. You know HR has to work to make sure that they are reskilling and upskilling those individuals to be ready for those roles at that point in time, because that's all part of transitioning those individuals and those individuals that come to you and say you know what I've decided. It's not within the organization . I want to exit, I want to leave and do something else, you know , okay, that's okay too. That's okay, but when they are exiting, what can you do with them? So can you offer them some sort of exit support, depending on the level of the individual, especially people that have been with you for long periods of time? Do you get them a coach? Do you provide them with advisory services for early retirement, for being an entrepreneur? Do you pay for a course here and there? Managing that exit is also very important because it's part of your alumni community Amazing and supporting them when they've moved on Very key. Speaker 1: Amazing, amazing. I mean I just imagine for HR doing this, how the people involved, how they'll be indebted to, should I say, the organization, like they care. I mean they care about me, because at the long run it's like you're still involved in the bigger picture, because somehow what they say what goes around, or what comes around goes around. Or what goes around around or what goes around comes around. Speaker 2: Comes around. Yes, yes, exiting, exiting when people transition out. That exit process is so key and I can give you a perfect example, having left now KPMG for 20 years, 20 years ago it's been an excellent alumni community for me, they have become a resource pool. They're my mentors, my you know . The exit of what happens with your alumni, how you support them in those transitions of their lives, is also very important. Speaker 1: Beautiful, beautiful. Now let's go to that aspect of you. When we look at your profile, we'll see, we'll ask ourselves is she now a teacher or something? Because we see you in classes and all that. So what was that about Nike? Let's hear that about Nike. Speaker 2: Yes. So I think that you know my eureka moments of, after working for 20 something years and really have had a good career, I just had another one of those moments where I really was increasingly finding my real core passion, which was really, as you said, human capital development. So I took those HR skills and then I started volunteering a lot. I said to you earlier I wanted to find out what was happening to the skills of the people I was meeting, because you know we were complaining about young people not being employable and things. I just got tired of listening to the problems and I just thought you know what is causing this. And then I started volunteering a lot in schools, tired of listening to the problems and I just thought you know what is causing this. And then I started volunteering a lot in schools. So I started going to primary schools and secondary schools because I wanted to understand the supply chain. This is the consulting side of me. You can't address a problem unless you go down to the root cause. So what were the problems that was now showing up at the other end, where we now had skills gaps, etc. And the more I went into classrooms, the more I started volunteering. I just I landed in my area of passion, which is really how to how to help young people, including children, to get the skills that they need to be able to fulfill their potentials, to be able to access all the opportunities that many of us don't have. And increasingly I saw the inequity, the inequality in our society between the haves and the have-nots. You know some that are privileged to go to private schools. When you go to public government schools, I started realizing that a majority of our youth and young people go through government schools. They don't have the money to go to private schools. So how do we begin to go back into those government education systems and begin to transform that education delivery so that what comes out, our children, our youth, when they come out of that system, are totally equipped to face the future? So that is really where you see a lot of what I'm doing now in the social impact space, which is really where I then started another one of my entrepreneurial ventures with a team of people Teach for Nigeria , bringing in young, talented Nigerians who were through a two year leadership development program and then putting them into classrooms to turn around the learning outcomes of children in the classroom. So they are teachers, but they are leaders. So we're grooming future leaders and then we're also putting in the teaching and the methodology and the pedagogy into the classroom. So that's where my passion lies now. So, yeah, it's the area of my focus now. So that's where you get to see all those pictures. So I love going into classrooms , I love engaging with stakeholders, talking to parents , teachers, etc. Just talking to young people to see what it is that we can do to make sure that they're able to read and write and they can acquire 21st century skills, because it's not an equitable world and people have to make it . We have to address the equity issues. Speaker 1: Awesome. Speaker 2: You can see that I've transitioned again years later, so transitioned now into well, hopefully this would be my major last transition into another career sector. Speaker 1: It's like each time you talk about this part of your transition, you come alive. It's like there's this fire all around you. You're so passionate about it, you know, and it's exciting and honestly, it's it's uh, how am I gonna put it? Now, it's contagious, that's the right word to use. You know, I was just looking at you and listening at the same time like wow, she's just this energy. So what's what's next for you now? What's next for n now? What's next for Nikkei? What are you up to? Speaker 2: So really just looking at how to deepen my presence in the new sector that I'm in now, scale up the initiatives that I'm already involved in. I sit on a couple of boards and boards, both in the UK and in Nigeria, that are really focused around human capital development. So I sit on the board of Teach for Nigeria, where it is, you know, supporting strategically on how to get children into school, how to get them quality education, how to make sure the children that can't access quality education get access to that education. I sit on the board of Africa Leadership Initiative, west Africa, where we're looking at leadership issues and particularly leadership in young people grooming future leaders, values based leaders, leaders. I sit on the board of a UK organization very much focused around girls' education, digital skills in rural. Tanzania. So they're all focused around my passion for human capital development and then just consulting in that space with organizations as well. So very much just looking at how to support NGOs, foundations and organizations that are working in corporate social responsibility to build interventions that address the needs of society. So that's really where I want to focus more now going forward. Speaker 1: Oh guys, guys, guys. We can't have enough of Nika, you can't. I mean, you will agree with me. She's just, I mean, going and going and going. Well, I wouldn't say gone, but honestly it's been an amazing time. She's just releasing I'm just giving it out there, all the energy. Speaker 2: Not gone yet. Makri, I'm not done, I'm just starting again. Speaker 1: I can imagine I canri , I'm not done, I'm just starting again. I can imagine. I can imagine it's been an awesome, awesome time with you discussing this issue. So how do we catch Nike if we want to catch her? How do we catch her? How do we follow her? How do we keep in touch with Nike? Speaker 2: So I am on LinkedIn. I'm quite active on LinkedIn. It's probably one of the only platforms that I'm active on, and so please reach out to me. Reach out to me, I'm quite good at responding. Please reach out to me if you need to, and then we'll take it from there. Absolutely Awesome, awesome, thank you Awesome guys. Speaker 1: You've you've heard it reach out to me and we will take it from there. Oh, time is not our friend, you know. But don't worry, we will always come back to this space, you know, to talk more, share experiences, lean on one, on others should I say experiences and build strength from there? Yes, we have been discussing with nike akereleilsuza. I love the way that name sounds . Oh, thank you for honoring us. We hope the next time we call you we will have you here to like release more of your energy . You know, in the house. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, guys. You know how we say it in the studio. You know how we say it on the show. I beg your pardon. This is where we come to lean on one another and build strength from Nikki. Any final word from you? Speaker 2: Thank you, Emakri, for this opportunity. It's been amazing. I also would like to say to everyone that, honestly, it's not too late. Wherever you are in the stage of your life, the transitions are inevitable. They will come. But take that opportunity. It's a calculated risk. Just do it. Speaker 1: It's a calculated risk. It's worth it. Yes, still, we come your way again. My name is Amakri Isoboye. Yes, I believe in the power of words. Why? Because it is the unit of creation. That is what the World Cafe is all about. Bye for now. Speaker 2: Bye, thank you. Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, beautiful. Before we sign off, I just want to encourage you. Yeah, it's been a wonderful time and also I'd like to hear from you your feedback. You know you've been listening to the World Cafe podcast. I would love to hear from you the feedback. If you have any questions, yeah , you go ahead and ask those questions. You can reach me at my email address amakrigaribaldi at gmailcom. R-e-e-r-i-b-a-l-d-i at gmailcom . Yeah, and we'll get back. You know how we do it on the show. Thank you, art. From Time it has been with you on the World Cafe podcast today. Thank you for being there. You can catch me up on my social media handles Twitter, facebook, linkedin, instagram all at Amakri Isoboye. Also, you can get copies of my books A Cocktail of Words, the Color of Words and my HR notebook on amazon and on roving heights online bookstores. You can also subscribe to my youtube page at the same address . Yes, till we see again. Bye for now.