S4 Ep. 246 Strategic Communication in a Nostalgic World

Speaker 1: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, good everything. Well, I won't say it like Eddie Murphy said it in you know that movie. Yes, good morning my neighbors. Well, I won't say it that way. How are you? You know how we say it on the show Aha, this is the space where we come in to lean on one another's experience, to forge a positive path. I love it Each time I come into this space. How are you? The year is still young, I know, as in Happy New Year, saying it is in order, is it not? So I'm going to say it to you again Happy New Year. Yes, I'm back. Did we ever leave? Ah, we didn't. So what are we going to be doing today? Well, I have somebody interesting. You know the World Cafe is all about positivity, good vibes. You know words and what is going on around us, how to make the best of it. And I have someone today on the show who is all about speaking, communicating in a strategic manner. Don't worry, when she comes on, you will understand what I mean . And she's here today to do her thing with us within the show. Her name is Ivy Clem. I got to meet her some years ago. Yes, she did one or two things for me with respect to my book Amazing, when I launched my second book yes, that's the color of words she came on and she did her thing. Enough of my talking. I know you want to see her face and you want to hear her voice, so I'm going to bring her on now. Where is she? And there she is. Hello, ivy Hi hi. Speaker 2: Welcome Hi, thank you , thank you, thank you, thank you. Such a pleasure to be on the Word Cafe. The pleasure is all mine. Yeah, we had a nice cafe meeting the other time where we had tea. Speaker 1: Yes. Speaker 2: But this time it's online and we're at the World Cafe, so let me see how this one is going to be different from you know real life. If I had known, I would have paid my cup of tea or coffee. I would have come to do that. Speaker 1: Don't worry, there will be another time. There will be another time. Thank you for coming. I mean, what is it like at your end, as in the weather and everything, work and all of that ? Speaker 2: I love the weather. The weather is really nice over here. It's still a bit of a hamatan breeze. I'm in Abuja, nigeria, so there's a bit of hamatan breeze. It is not like what the folks in the us and the europe are facing right now in terms of the chill. Um so all the nigerians that have jackpot. It's time for you to come back home. The weather is much, much better here than outside the country right now nice weather at this time we're going to say that word. I know envy you because it's so cold out there, right, it's minus yeah, yes 20 minus 22 minus 26 yeah, but it will. Speaker 1: I mean, it's a phase. Yeah, it's a phase. It will uh, it will pass and we will uh. We're resilient people. We will overcome, we'll become stronger, better, wiser. So let's get to meet this wonderful personality called Ivy Clem. Speaker 2: Who is she? Well, Ivy is a communications expert. I've been doing this for 20-something odd years now. I've always doing this for 20-something odd years now. I've always loved communication , so Ivy is someone who is a student of communications and has also had the opportunity to teach on different aspects of communications. I've had the opportunity to be involved in the media quite extensively and at the highest levels in Nigeria as a news anchor. So I've always been from I was one of those people. I read mass communications in my degree. That was what I wanted to do, that's what I worked towards doing, and it was very fulfilling for me to do mass communications in my first degree at Benway State University because I'm from Benway State. Vacations in my first degree at Benway State University because I'm from Benway State and I remember I recall people said, oh go, do your master's, go do something else immediately after I finish school and I was like no, I want to go into the industry and start working, which I did. I went to Lagos because that's where all the media jobs were at the time. At the time the federal government had just given broadcast licenses to private organizations. So you had the AIT, you had the Minard Broadcast International, you had Channels Television, you had DVN. I think there were like five of them, the pioneers when Babangida, under the administration of Babangida, gave out private broadcast licenses. So I started working at Minage Broadcast International very quickly and I've always been in basically I've always been in communication. So it's something that I've always loved and something that I'm still doing, and I'm very, very happy to be doing it. Speaker 1: I mean, 20 years in that space is enough. It's enough to write a whole, a whole book, you know, yeah, yeah, 20 years, because you, you captured it so well. Looking at when the private, uh , uh, communication outfit started springing up, exactly that time, and I mean, I, I remember when AIT, then television in Nigeria used to be a four o'clock and a nine o'clock in 4 pm and 9 pm. But after that period, when the licenses started coming in silver bed and the rest of them started having this cable TV mentality come in, where you have television around the clock , and all of a sudden, yeah, the possibilities were endless and names, and you know, started springing up here and there. Then, I think for channels, it was john momo, he started channels. Then ait uh, that was his name. Now, blessed memory, he's passed. Now he started AIT. Yes, high Chief Dokwe Si, yeah, he started AIT and all of that. So it changed the landscape of communication in Nigeria. I can attest to that. But now let us look at it from your eye, as in from ID Clem's perspective. How did it change it? Can you from your own perspective? How did it change? Speaker 2: it Well, I think you put it really succinctly. You know, I mean truly. We only had the major broadcaster in Nigeria, which the Nigerian Television Authority. They did a great job but, like you mentioned, they started at four o'clock and he ended, say, maybe 10 or at most midnight. I recall that when we had the things maybe like Easter or Christmas, you would have to wait up so you could watch that good old Jesus Christ of Nazareth movies. Speaker 1: And we do it in parks . Speaker 2: So all of our entertainment was with the broadcaster, with the national broadcaster at the time, and they did a good job. I recall that they had so many programs. If you recall you can remember, at dawn I remember they had um things fall apart. Speaker 1: House number 13, basi and company all everybody watched sesame street religiously because that was your form of um entertainment House no 13, Basi and Company. Speaker 2: Absolutely. I remember Sesame Street. Everybody watched Sesame Street religiously because that was your form of entertainment. Entertainment and that taught us English Exactly and all of that , and so it was a time of I call it a time of, maybe innocence, and I remember every parent would wait up until the network news. In fact, when the network news started with that theme song, that was when you knew as a child that you needed to go sleep because, I mean, the adults were watching television and all. But with the coming in of the other players, the private players, if you recall, like you mentioned, there was a lot of excitement. There was something new to watch you had. Then we went to 24. And that was also the time cable television just like you mentioned um had a surge. Everybody was watching uh, cable news network cnn for the first time and you could watch the news on replay every hour that was unheard of at the time, and now that is standard. You have the news on the hour for most stations at standard. But then it was new, it was fresh and it was just an exciting time. Different kinds of programming, so the different stations also had their personalities. They had segments where you could watch entertainment, you could watch news, you could watch sports, you could watch all kinds of things. So it was an enthralling time for people because they had so many options on what to watch. There were some tv stations that tried to center on entertainment and so you just had a lot more choice. And I recall then they now said um, all of them were on standard definition. Then it was at that point in time. They said we're going to move to hd. And then there was the transition, if you can recall, from standard definition to hd. Um, if you recall, we had the chugum games. We could do it live. Um, that was under over. Yeah, we had the chugum games. We had the stadium brand new. So it was a time of freshness, of innovation. Um, in the media space, uh, that was, that was the time we had. We even the super, remember. Um, dstv had all the licenses to play football and um, the federal government, uh, with some of the private television stations, stepped in and said, no, they had to break that monopoly, which is why some stations can you know, air, air the Premier League. So it was a time of change in the broadcast industry, just to be like other countries, and I think it was quite successful. We gave a lot more choice, gave a lot more innovation in the fields, just made it really, really interesting. So that's what I recall. In my own eyes, it was just a time. I mean we can never go back to the way it used to be. But now there's so much. But even now, the traditional TV, it's another time of change, and another time of change because of even though the internet was there. Maybe the internet has been there for like a few 15, you know, at least 15 years now, as in really really. But at least in the past two, three, four, five years I hear I've seen that a lot of people do not even rely on traditional television anymore for any kind of news, entertainment or sports . Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: Everybody's online. Speaker 1: Yeah, basically, if you look at that from what you just said. Now I look at my children. They don't watch dstv anymore. Yeah, honestly, they don't. What I see them do now is more of youtubing. You see them in one day I had to like break into their own spaces, like why aren't you guys watching, like cartoon network and all of that? You just looked at me with this eye of that's, that's a cake. Now it's boring. You know those things don't excite them anymore. Rather, they want to see mr beast. There's this guy, the highest whatever youtuber in the world. His name is mr beast. I didn't even know until they told me because they were watching Mr Beast In my mind I was like Mr Beast sounds like one, you know, unfriendly, whatever, but it's a guy who goes around doing stuff and he has gathered so much following and all that. They move from Mr Beast, they go to other things. So it's like the traditional TV which we are used to, like DSTV and all of that. Honestly, it's becoming obsolete. Tv which we are used to, like DSTV and all of that, Honestly, it's becoming obsolete. What is now holding sway for them? You know the millennials, or what I call them pre-millennials , before millennials. Now I don't know if the word will come again later is YouTubing on the internet. They're surfing the web, they're watching YouTube. So the truth is it has changed, and I think we need to also find a way of reaching them now, as in reaching them with our own should I say services, products and all of that you know. So it has changed. Now it brings me to this question about strategy, because you're big on that when it comes to communication. You call yourself a strategic communication expert. Why should I be strategic in my form of communicating? Speaker 2: well, that's a really , really, really good question. So you just mentioned that there has been change and evolution, and that was brought out of strategy. Somebody said how am I going to reach younger people in bite size, with bite-sized content in a way that they will understand ? And, based on that strategy, we have used, just like you mentioned, youtube, tiktok, instagram, facebook smaller form videos, very little words, short form videos, a lot of captions and actually, you know, nobody's sitting down watching 30 minutes of programming, 45 minutes of programming, 60 minutes of programming because they've found that the attention span of people has kind of, you know, reduced. So that is a strategy how are we going to keep people coming to us? And they have had to evolve. So that is simply why strategic communications is absolutely important, because the markets continue to change and you have to keep on having different kinds of products to be able to keep your clients or to keep your partners, or keep your stakeholders involved and engaged. So that is why you have to be strategic. You have to think about it from point A up until point Z, rather than just, you know, getting different, different components and jumbling it all up. No, you have to look at it in a frame and decide okay, what is it I'm trying to do, what are my objectives, what is, who is the audience that I want to engage? What is my strategy, what am I going to do, how am I going to implement, how am I going to execute and how am I going to score? So that is the importance of strategic communications. It's actually not just haphazard. You think it through and then you deploy your means or whatever it is that you want. So that is it's essential, because the world is constantly changing and evolving and you, as an individual or a person, as an organization, you have to keep up with the times. To do that, you have to have a strategy. Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, now I'm going to read out something for you. I saw today and I hope I can call it up. It blew my mind and I was like, okay, when I come on with Ivy, I'm going to read it. Just give me a minute, let me call it up. I was like you don't say this was a conversation between uh, warren buffett and uh, his friend. Just give me a minute, all right. I think I've seen it. So this is hold on, where are you? Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, okay. From on. Come on Okay From Same as Ever. It's a book by Morgan Pousel, he said I once had lunch with a guy who's close to Warren Buffett. This guy, we will call him Jim, not his real name. Hope you can hear me. Hello, ivy. Speaker 2: Yes, I can hear you clearly All right, okay, Not his real name. Speaker 1: He was driving around Omaha, Nebraska, with Buffett in late 2009. The global economy was crippled at this point and Omaha was no exception. Stores were closed, Businesses were boarded up. Jim said to Warren Jim, do you know what the best-selling candy bar was in 1962? No, Jim, said Snickers, said Warren. He went on and do you know what the best-selling candy bar is today? No, said Jim Snickers. Warren said Then silence. That was the end of the conversation. Changes capture our attention because it's surprising and exciting, but the behavior that never change are history's most powerful lessons, because they preview what to expect in the future. And when I saw this I was like okay, sneakers in 1962. And over how many years? Sneakers are still relevant? There is something these guys are doing, that is, they are very strategic and there was a I want to believe there was a way they were communicating their product to their clients or to the market that kept them afloat and relevant. I read this and I want you to respond to it with respect to those of us who plan for the year. We have vision boards. We have what you call it. Respond to it with respect to those of us who plan for the year. We have vision boards, we have what you call goals and all that . How do you think, even as small as an individual or as big as an organization, how best do you think we can communicate this in the midst of all the change, or changes, we're seeing before us today? Speaker 2: I communicate like a Snickers staying power and how we can utilize that maybe in our own brands and how we want to present ourselves. Speaker 1: Exactly. Speaker 2: Yeah. So I'd like to say I mean, that's such a great story from the excerpt of what you read, with Warren Buffett and the example of snake rice. Yeah, I mean, but in those days , I mean there are brands that you can mention like that, that they have staying power just by staying the way they have always been, because people have that legacy aspect of their lives as well. They want something that is trustworthy, something that doesn't change with time. Uh, and people have that, you know, when it comes to, like, some products that have such a defined look and feel and taste. So, so, snickers, yes, you can also look at a brand like coca-c . Once Coca-Cola was established, you're not changing anything. Anybody who is a Coca-Cola, ardent Coca-Cola fan, like I am, just give me original Coke. I don't want it in different flavors. Don't innovate. Just give me my Coca-Cola. In fact, one of the best things people do when they want to give me a diet Coke, I'm like what the hell? No, just give me good, old-fashioned coke. So there are some brands that they, they thrive and they excel on being how they are. Um, because people want it. It's comfort, it's nostalgia, it's this is how you want it. You don't want it any other way . Um, you would feel that if that changes, I mean that's a bit too much change. So some brands are like that, but not all. Um, and I mean just think of it how used to like certain goods chocolates, or when you were growing up. It brings you that sense of nostalgia that even when you're at it grown it still tastes the same. So it brings you comfort, it brings you warmth. You have the memories of it, yeah yeah so that's what I will say about those sorts, but not all brands are. Some brands need innovation, just like we mentioned the broadcast sector. Yeah, yeah, so that was. That is one industry that has had to innovate and change. Or tech as we experience it and as we know it Now, for individuals, you have to understand what is your value proposition. What is it that you want to communicate? Do you want to be seen as robust and young and innovative, or do you want to be seen as a legacy person, someone who is authoritative, someone who is formal, someone who is more nostalgia-based? And you then think about speaking with the strategic communications expert or someone in communications or branding and working it back so that you can be that brand and you can continue to do those things. So, yes, there are many nostalgia brands that still do well, um, like you mentioned snickers, like I mentioned coca-cola, I'm sure that, um, you can think about some of a few others. I can think of a few others, but I'm not sure that you're paying you an advertisement, so I'm not gonna. We can think of some nostalgia brands that we don't want them to change, and it's also something that we can share with our children. They may do a few tweaks, but they don't shift too much because of the nostalgia of that particular brand yeah and you find out that those particular brands are first in class. So, for instance, when people think about chocolate, they'll say, okay, snickers will get me a stickers bar, even though it may be another brand or whatever it is, but it's usually first in class. That's what takes the minds of people. Um, so, yes, beverages, there's soda, but everybody will say I need coca-cola, for instance, or whatever it is. Or geria, every form of seasoning is maggie maggie. I mean, there are so many other , you know, but it has now become a first in class. So some brands have the opportunity to be in that niche and generally they stay the same . They don't need to change or innovate, because if they do, then they will lose market share . Speaker 1: You know, listening to you now, based on the nostalgic or nostalgia, brings to memory. Like you know, there's this experience that we all encountered, you know, with this particular product and it stays with us. So each time we get back to that product or the class of product, what comes to our mind is that particular name. Just like you said in Nigeria, when you say get me maggi let me put it the way we call it in our, you know, pidgin English what comes to our mind is maggi, not knowing that, hello, is it seasoning? We have the others, no, and what have you? But that thing just stays with us. So that experience recently I've been seeing those who were born, say, the early 60s, late 70s, early 80s. You see this, they are kind of they want to get back to that experience growing up. So so, the historical things, you know, they just like television, the way it was, the tube TV and the product they dealt with and all that. And somehow the children of this generation kind of see their parents wanting to get to those things and somehow the children too want to like, let me understand why mommy and daddy are, like, always going to that and they also want to have that experience. That's what I hear from what you're saying. So, more or less like some of these people I mean some of these uh products or people behind these products come to read this psychology and it's just see, they begin to bring back those old brands the way they were from the very beginning. And this generation, it brings this communication between this generation and that generation. I don't know if you you get what I'm trying to the picture here go go give it a go yeah, I totally agree with you. Speaker 2: Uh, some people I mean you have conversations with , um some psychologists and they say you know what, the more things change, the more things remain what they remain the same yeah, because people have that, that strong nostalgia effect, you know. So I mean, I'm from a generation . I don't know. If I say this I'm going to be giving out maybe around the time frame that I was born, and for a lady you never really tell your age. I remember when we used to listen to the 8 Tracker. That was even before you had to go into the CDs, where innovation you know before even the 8 Tracker. Then you had the Betamax, if I can recall the name that my mom had Betamax yes, I can recall the name that my mom had. Speaker 1: Then you had the VHS. Speaker 2: Then you had the tapes, those things. You have videos. Then you now move to CDs. Then you had DVDs. Now you don't even have any of those things anymore. Speaker 1: Now it's Bluetooth and all of that. You go get a USB or whatever it now it's bluetooth, bluetooth and all of that. Speaker 2: You go get a usb or whatever it is to get your your movies and everything. Um so and I mean for me personally um, those other forms gave you a sense of ownership of those products yeah you could go back. So, for instance, I have a dvd, I have a good old-fashioned dvd player and once in a while I will crank out my my series of the godfather and watch the three episodes. So I will crank out my my fair lady and watch it, or crank out the sound of music, and it's mine, you know even for my cds. I recall I have my lauren hill cd. I mean anytime I travel outside the country the first thing I buy is my John Seed, of course, my Michael Jackson. I have ownership of them. But now everything is online, Everything is streamed, everything is. You don't have I believe I said so if someone steals my phone, then all my music goes, all of those. Or maybe they'll say I store it on the iCloud or whatever, but I don't have, I really don't those things. And again, one thing that I that irks me is I always feel why, when I'm listening to my favorite musician, why do I, why , why, why does that have to be tracked by somebody else to the extent that you can now know my preferences? and send those preferences to me ? Why does what I like have to be fed into? Speaker 1: an algorithm. You feel like your private. Your privacy is a uh, should I say I'm listening to my music. Speaker 2: That should be something private between me and you know. I pay the artist, buy their cd and I experience whatever I want to experience for years on end. But with the streaming, everything is so fast. So, yes, there is a market. I say all of this to say there's a market for nostalgia. Sure that if I had an opportunity to go watch. Speaker 1: Take that again, take that again. There's a market for. Speaker 2: For nostalgia, you know, for the things that. Speaker 1: Can you put a price on it? Speaker 2: I mean, how can you? I'm not sure that you can put a price on it, but it takes you back to the time where your memories were yours, where you experienced community. So, for instance, in those days , if you had your VHS or whatever it is, all of you are watching that program together. But now five people are sitting down in the room. They cannot be watching five different things. Speaker 1: With all five different devices. Speaker 2: Devices, even that just sense of quietness to experience whatever is going on, seems to be lost. Now, in terms of communications , it helps. well, it helps that now you have to segment you know, you have to have different kinds of um approach, approaches to different demographics and different people. That brings about different kinds of programming and everything, which is why when you go online like, like you mentioned, youtube you go to YouTube and instead of you getting one choice, you have like 50 different choices. You have the opportunity to download, you have the opportunity to do this. You can go live. You know there's so much that you can do. Now, even in all of that so muchness, you just want to sense that things can just be simple, which is why I say there's a market for nostalgia. People, see, are just generally so distracted by the amount of information that they can consume, to the extent that now, um, the niche market has a lot more draw and has become luxury to the point that it attracted premium to experience something that you experienced when you were a child, just because it's so niche now. So there is a market for that means a few things don't change, you know, like, like art and all of those things. The older it is, the more, uh, better in terms of how you cost it or how it is perceived. Um, so I think there is a generally a market for, for nostalgia, because people generally that strikes. Speaker 1: that strikes a chord for me. Uh, part of my processing today before coming on, uh, this with you was you know we now have a market for remixing of so many things in the space of creativity. Now you find out a good number of our artists out there remix a lot of these songs. So in the market for nostalgia you come to see those of us who quote unquote the VHS, the DVD, the cassette player, 8-deck and all of that. You hear certain songs and you just smile and it's like that's a remix of that song. That's a remix of that song. Let me give you an example from the church. I hear Moses Bleas and his team remix the I have a Very Big God . You know. I see them singing and I laugh. I say that's not the original song. The original song is I have a very big God. He is always by my side. A very big God by my side, by my side, a very big God do by my side, by my side. That's the original. But when I hear them sing that a good number of us who grew up on that we just smile and we get into it. So the market for nostalgia, the way it is now, is like they are now bringing a fusion to two or three or more generations. You know, having this way of bringing everybody together in the business of remixing music, and that is what I hear you see the market for nostalgia. Now I think we need to like what's the best word to use now Encourage our communication strategies to see how we can lash on on this very piece of you know the market for nostalgia. Okay, how do you spend your time? How do you spend your time? Okay? Speaker 2: well, I'm in the nostalgia market, so I spend my time on a lot of nostalgic things go ahead share with us friend, um she. She teases me all the time because I read books. I read paper books. I like the smell of the books when I'm turning one page to the other. I'm old, something like that. Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that too . Speaker 2: You can put it on your phone, you can put it on your tablet, you can put it on your PC. I'm like no, nothing is going to change me from reading my good old-fashioned books, so I love to read. I'm a music enthusiast, as you may. Uh, as I mean, I've mentioned music a few times in this um interview and, yeah, I love my music, I I like a good conversation, um, I'm a chill person. I love communications as um, as a form, because I mean, what better thing than than knowing how to speak to someone and getting a response from the other person? You know, you said that God spoke and things began to happen , and the whole thing about the whole Bible is a series of stories that people tell that we're told. So I think that communications is a gift that God has given us. I think, yes, the animals and other, they communicate in their own way, but I'm not sure I think that humans are the only people that communicate the way we do in terms of speech, talking to one another, understanding, yes, emotions and everything. One word can cause a war. Words also can be the start of the greatest love of all. So I think that communications is just. I'm a student of communication, so generally, those are the things that drive me on a day-to-day basis. Speaker 1: Those are the things that drive me on a day-to-day basis, beautiful Guys. We've been discussing with Ivy Clem, a communication strategist . She's an expert in that field 20 years experience and you will agree with me. She has dished out so much on this show. One thing I will not forget in a hurry is that market for nostalgia, so we can all dive into it and get our portion of it. Yes, all right. So what's your plan for 2024? I want to believe you have something cooking out there. I saw your piece talking about you want to talk about more of Nigeria this 2024. In addition to what you have as a plan, can you share with us why Nigeria? Why do you want to talk about Nigeria? Speaker 2: Yeah, because Nigeria gets such a bad rep, doesn't it Go to any cluster of people speaking about Nigeria generally ? Chances are everyone is going to say something negative about the country and the only difference I mean everything that happens in nigeria happens in other countries. There's unemployment, there is um decay, there is all kinds of things happening in every other country, but, um, generally they put their best foot forward. Um, we, as a people, we always want to be the most realistic or realists. You know, other countries are. Other members of other countries are not as realistic about their own experiences. Um, so I have said, I mean, yes , I do not deny that there are many things wrong with with the country and we have many, many challenges. But there's also, for every one story that is bad, there are 50,000 that are good and I will be telling parts. I'll be one of those people that tells the 50,000 stories that are good. So I've told people, when they're speaking with me, there's going to be no insults about Nigeria anywhere in any of my communications. I will try my best not to do that. We will listen to the news. We will, you know, decipher everything that is happening. We shall talk intelligently, but we shall not castigate, abuse, demean or make it seem as if any other country is better than nigeria. They may have structures, they may have things that are good, but their own histories, um, are not 100 kosher or blessed just like ours. Um, they have, because all kinds of things that they have done to get to where they are we haven't yet. Yeah, so, even though we talk about the realism of what's going on in the country, we also have to talk about the positives as well. I also believe that a lot of our stories are not being told. Just today I was watching the. They say the Oscar nominations for the Academy Awards are going to be coming up is it today or tomorrow, early in the morning? And for the best picture? The best picture nomination is going to be 10 movies, which they did after there was so much talk about inclusivity and drama and everything, so they've now made it 10. And these movies will be globally recognized because it is on this great, magnificent stage which is the Academy Awards, and they're telling stories, different stories, mostly stories about things that happen within their own environment For us in Nigeria, and it's a myriad sense of stories. You'll talk about the Native Americans. You'll talk about this. You'll talk about whatever. Where are our Nigerian stories? Where are they, especially about the middle class? We have so many stories to tell . Speaker 1: We do. Speaker 2: So that is my own thing. I don't have for now, I don't have the platform to start making movies, and maybe I will. Maybe we can talk and we can start doing movies. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: And now we've moved up onto watching. You know all the distraction that is, but where are those stories? The stories don't always have to be epic stories. It can be simple stories Simple . So that's where I'm at, in my own plant of talking about Nigeria. I'm not going to deny the reality, but I do say that the other stories we could tell that will show ourselves and our country in a positive light. Because I keep on saying I mean , I'm a Christian and I know you're a Christian also. You keep on saying something about a certain place. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy yes, it is chances are you'll find out people from other countries. You'll say that this is, this is where dreams are made of, and that becomes people's reality. Yeah, they say that we do the best of this and that becomes their reality for us in nigeria. What do we say about our country? Speaker 1: self-fulfilling prophecy yeah, I love that. I love that you know telling the stories about your country, telling the story about your neighborhood. Somebody asked me the other day and it's like do we have a Nigerian dream? Like you hear the American dream. I want to live the American dream. I want a piece of the American dream. I want to live the American dream. I want a piece of the American dream. Do we have the Nigerian dream? And I paused for a minute and I couldn't quite give the person an answer, because I believe we do, but it's how to craft that story Are sometime, I think last year, I came upon this report. They were talking about the most praying nations in the world and poverty capital and blah, blah, blah. Obviously, nigeria and Afghanistan made the list as part of the top two countries that prayed the most, and they made all sorts of analysis and blah, blah, blah. But what caught my attention was when they came to the COVID year. The two nations that were not adversely impacted by the COVID was Nigeria and Afghanistan. And I said, okay, hold a minute , we're praying people, we are praying people. Covid could not break through. The US had their, the US had their issues, europe had their issues, but Nigeria did not. That is a story. And if you go through the COVID year, you look at how we lived. We were more communal, we went into that. You know storytelling times like folklores, stories under the moonlight and all of that. You know I spent more time with my children singing songs that my mother sang to me and I said to myself okay, can we not forge , craft something after this to tell the world our story? We might be broken, but we're not out. We might have our challenges, but hello, we are champions. We have count, the first 10 black people on earth, First 10. Just 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Before you get to the 10th person, you see 4 Nigerians. It speaks volume. Recently, a Nigerian beauty business that BlackRock bought over for $12.9 billion. He's a Nigerian, ogunlese, I think that's his name. So we have a lot to create. But, like you said, we are the ones, so to say, talking down on ourselves. Nobody will sell your market like you. Nobody will do that, and I think it's I mean it's us that will do that and I take that challenge. You know, creating, starting to create movies, telling the stories of Nigeria, and I believe Ivy Clem would give, she will lend a voice and a hand when it comes to crafting the script. Speaker 2: I agree. I mean think about when you're growing up. I mean you watch the good, the bad and the ugly. Speaker 1: You watch? Speaker 2: movies that's how you thought about. You knew the Yankees, you knew the Yanks. They told their stories. Watch movies that's how you thought about. You knew the Yankees, you knew the Yanks about. They told their stories. They pushed it out internationally and you began to feel like you were living in those countries and it began to wake up the interest in you to go to those countries. So we're going to. I mean, now that we have a king there's a king now in England but I mean everybody will say I to that. I mean, now that we have a king there's a king now in England but I mean everybody will say I want to go to England to go see the queen, because what we have been shown is what we have been shown. But what are we showing when we talk about Nigeria? So there was something you mentioned that is so important when you said that the person asked what is the Nigerian dream ? And you couldn't give him a straight answer. Now. Now that's the job of a strategic communications person you craft the message. Yeah, you're very strategic about it because they were strategic about it. It wasn't a mistake that you heard that america is the land of dreams and opportunities. Somebody crafted that and began to push it, and it became a holistic messaging for the whole country that permeated every aspect of their lives and it has transformed their economy. Now people always tell me if you go into government, where do you want to work, or whatever. I don't particularly care about the Ministry of Petroleum or all those ones. Just give me the Ministry of Information and National Orientation. That's the only ministry that I want, because that's the ministry that will allow me to craft the messaging for our country that will be able to say let's tell this story about Nigeria. We're not telling any cohesive story about the country and that's on us as a nation. That is what those ministries are doing. Yeah, I remember what I mean, but they used to do it before. When we were growing up. We used to have just when it was just the radio. They would always push out positive stories about nigeria not not just the radio. Speaker 1: Not just not just the radio, even on television. If you remember when we used to have is it Nethetab or I've forgotten how they crafted it where they bring different stories from all the cultures around Nigeria. You do a movie about it, they vote for it and they call up the winner or something. I remember. Then we used to get excited when we hear that that competition is around the corner . You have a lot of movie directors and producers and everything working on traditional stories. You know that will get even our parents like nostalgic, like how did they get this particular piece and all of that. So I remember those days. Somehow we we left them somewhere happening now. Speaker 2: Remember, if you recall, in the 80s there was the campaign when just then it wasn't even we call it jack by now in nigeria and anybody outside the country I'm checking out yes, but they did something to counter it. Yeah, it stopped so many people from leaving. Speaker 1: Yeah, they did something to counter it. Yeah. Speaker 2: It stopped so many people from leaving. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: They did something to counter it, because they used to call it brain drain in those days. Speaker 1: In those days. Yeah, Brain drain, yeah. Speaker 2: Now we have something like a tsunami of people that are leaving the country to the shores. Young people, every young person, every parent that I know . Their preference is for their child or daughter to school abroad. Speaker 1: Canada. Speaker 2: Even with the exchange rate there is no one of a certain age range who has children of a certain age. If you ask them what is your preference in terms of where your children will go to school, 10 out of 10, maybe I mean it can be too terrible, but at least 9 out of 10 would say that they're working to ensure that their children can leave the shores of Niger. Speaker 1: You can say 10 out of 10 comfortably. I tell you for free. Speaker 2: Meanwhile, all those parents that are having this conversation all schooled in public schools in Nigeria. Speaker 1: Absolutely. Speaker 2: Because when we're growing up, there are no private schools. Speaker 1: None. Speaker 2: None, so you can. Just the way I'm saying is you can imagine the amount of young people that are leaving the country without any reason to come back. The innovation, the vibrancy, the youth, the connections, the partnerships, the stakeholders are going somewhere else and there is no counter messaging that deals with that. To me, that is personally shocking as a communications person yeah because, if you're telling, it's what people hear all the time. Because what is the greatest way of marketing? No matter how people do it, most of it is still word of mouth word of mouth true so we are having a conversation or whatever it is. I I'm like oh, how are your kids? Oh, they're fine. I just took them to Canada the other day. Oh really, canada, oh really. And we start having that conversation. Then I start thinking then why don't I send my kids over to Canada? Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: Or to wherever. So it's still word of mouth. So we are using, we are marketing the education system in other countries and there is no counter from our federal government, state or local or national agencies for information, to counter that messaging, to tell people that there is hope for the youth here . Now to me, like I said, to me, that is shocking that nobody is doing that. I mean, I don't know. Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you , if you have the thought, then it means something is about to happen. So prepare yourself, because, being around this piece for a while, I can tell you for free how it works. The minute those thoughts start coming, it's all about time. You see similar minds and there's this resonance and we'll begin to flow. But I am optimistic. I am, and that's why somehow it just clicked within me to get Ivy to come on the World Cafe to talk about communication. And, guys, you will agree with me, we've been having an amazing time. But, like you know, time is not our friend. When we get into talking and it becomes all exciting and you look at the time, it's like wow, we've been here for this long. That's because when you do, when you're doing what you enjoy , time ceases to exist. But we need to respect time. Before I let her go, one last thing from ivy to my audience about communication well, communications is like air air that we breathe, um. Speaker 2: and the beautiful thing is that some people say you don't own. The beautiful thing about communications is that there's verbal and there's nonverbal. So some people say, well, I can't speak or I can't see or I can't hear, but there is a way that humans have been infused by our creator to be able to get our thoughts and our dreams, our hopes and aspirations from one person to another, and I think it's one of the most beautiful things. So do learn how to communicate. If you want to learn more about communications, you can reach me on my social media. Yes, where do we catch you? Speaker 1: Where do we catch you ? Where do we catch you? Speaker 2: Instagram ivyclem1. I always say because if you look at my bio, it says the one and only when do we catch you? Where do we catch you? Instagram ivyclem1. I always say because if you look at my bio it says the one and only so ivyclem1. And I always say that ivyclem, I mean it's seven letters Ivy, clem, c-l-e-m, so reach me. If you do that, if you put that , it will come up on all of the channels and let's talk about communications. Come up on all of the channels and let's talk about communications. Let me teach you, coach you, how to be a better presenter, how to present yourself better, have to have confidence and um, how to, and the importance of strategic communications and how we can transform your organization, your life and this country. So anybody, I'm up for minister of uh, information and national orientation, if they're looking for that, I'm right here all right, guys. Speaker 1: You heard it from the one and only ivy clem. She's given herself. You know there. So guys make contact with her, you won't regret it. I I remember the first time I I called her, or you know, just to collaborate and I enjoyed myself. She did a marvelous job. Go check that out. On my YouTube channel You'll see one of my very early videos. I did the word as in the color of words. I thought I did a cocktail of words, the color of words. Ivy was one of the people that did the reading and all of that. She is an amazing person. You will agree with me. All right, guys. Well, I've been having an amazing time. I know you two have been, but I just have to let her go. But let me tell you this for free She'll be back in this space, you know, to share with us her encounter with that space called national orientation and , uh, information and all of that, and it's going to be fingers crossed. Yes on it on a positive note. All right, guys, till I come your way again. Bye for now, ivy. Speaker 2: Thank you thank you bye. Thank you so much for having me . Thank you so much, I do appreciate it you're welcome.