S3 Ep. 180 Building An Effective Team

Speaker 1: Hello there, welcome to the World Cafe podcast. This podcast has been designed with created content that centers on the power of words. Can we really do anything without speaking? Can we really do anything without the agency of words? Yes, that is what this podcast is all about, and I am your host , amakri Isubie, your neighborhood word trader. I believe in the power of words , for it is the unit of creation . I trade in words to profit my world. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, good, everything wherever you are. Yes, at this particular moment, on the surface of the earth, how are you all doing? I'm not just asking that rhetorically, surface of the earth, how are you all doing? Not just asking that rhetorically, I really mean it. How are you? Ah, yes, I'm good where I am. I'm good where I am and, yes, fortunately I use the word fortunately because it started raining where I am. It's been pretty hot, you know, january, february and all of that, but now we have rains and somehow, yes, we have a little bit of respite from the heat strokes, and what have you? Yes, we're back into that space . What are we going to be doing today? Yes, we will be looking at building effective, you know, an effective team and all of that, and I have this amazing personality. Kaspar is his name. I will bring him on very soon. And one thing caught my attention when I looked at, you know, checked up his profile and all that. He's a genuine nice guy. That caught my attention. But like this guy, then he needs to come on the show. All right enough, said Let me bring him on so that we'll see him and hear him. Where is he? And there he is. Hi Gaspar. Speaker 2: Hi hi. Speaker 1: How do you pronounce? Speaker 2: your name. Speaker 1: Sorry, I should have asked that before. Yes, my name is Amakri Isoboye. Speaker 2: Amakri, isoboye, isoboye. Speaker 1: Isoboye? Yes, I understand. Speaker 2: Isoboye Isoboy. Yes, I understand, but you can call me a max. Yes, you can call me a max for short. Uh, max. Sorry, I should have asked that before. Speaker 1: It's just okay yeah, better now than in in 20 minutes when we've yeah. Yes, you know it's good, so where are you joining us from? Speaker 2: I'm in uh, sunny copenhagen. I know you just said the rain came, but that's because you're used to very hot weather yes the other way around. We've been through a dreadful long dull, gray winter, uh, with yeah, rain and clouds and stuff , and now finally spring is here and so so I enjoyed when it's not raining. Speaker 1: Denmark is more of the. They are more into logistics along the sea routes and all of that. Correct me if I'm wrong. Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct. I actually worked at Maersk for a couple of years as a head of creatives. So, yeah, so I know a bit about logistics I can imagine. Speaker 1: So what is it like the weather, does it affect your mood, and all of that, because it's like you're looking so excited because of the summer, so I'm trying to imagine during winter. What is it like? Speaker 2: Oh, in the winter, I mean, it's gray most day. Maybe we get a bit of sunlight around noon. So I think everybody is coming out in the summer and everything is happening on the streets. Once it's it's, it's spring, and it's only been spring for, I think, maybe a week now. So, um, yeah, it's amazing. The sun does set, but it's around one o'clock in the night and it rises again around three o'clock, so it's it's light all the all year round. My brother-in-law was from the us. He hates it because he can't sleep, but everybody here loves it the long I experienced that once, you know, in europe. Speaker 1: So I've been in italy , to be precise, and, uh, when I was there for a while, you know , doing some jobs and all of that, so when my family came, my children were, they were so excited during the summer, you know, and it's like, guys, it's time to go to bed. And they said, daddy bed, it's still, the sun is still out. I said, hello, it's 10 pm. And it's like, no, it's not. I said it's 10 pm, you need to go to bed. And by 1 am exactly, you just see the sun, so to say, disappears and the whole place becomes so dark almost immediately. So I can imagine that experience and it's pretty difficult, as in for those of us who are not used to it, you find it difficult to sleep and all of that. So somehow it affects your psyche in a way. But that said, so, let's get to meet Kasper, let's meet you. Let's meet you. Let's meet you. Who is Kasper? Your second name I tried pronouncing. I want to know your surname. Speaker 2: It's CS Liu. We're not a big family, so we don't get offended. It's just me and my two sons. Actually, everybody else changed the name, so we don't get offended. You can call me anything. Speaker 1: All right, All right. So let's get to meet you. Who is Kaspar? Let's meet this amazing, genuine guy. You know nice guy. Speaker 2: Well, what am I? I don't know, I'm running. Uh, I'll start from today and then we can work backwards. That's maybe the other way, it's better um I used to work in advertising for I think like a million years back in the late 90s uh, start 200 and then I got really bored of it and I want to do something else. So I started a small company building apps and digital experience and so on, and then I kind of got dragged into advertising. But I wanted to do something else. So that's where I changed direction and I went in-house and built the in-house agency at Maersk, the big logistics and shipping company, yeah, which was located all around the world , so some in Copenhagen, but also some in the Philippines or in India. Yeah, we had employees around the world and that was pre-COVID and nice computer thing, so it was kind of difficult. Nice computer thing, so it was kind of difficult. And then I kind of moved on in a professional way from that and built another in-house agency at a company called Saxo Bank, which is actually not a bank but a trading app. So it's a lot about investment and trading. Something completely different, built another in-house, hired new creative people and tried to work with creativity in that fierce environment of investment bankers. And then I moved on to a jewelry company called George Jensen, which is kind of famous in Scandinavia, at least I've heard about them. And then we founded this company where we built and run in-house agencies. So I built a lot of different teams. So, whenever a company, it's not their core competences to run advertising agencies but, on the other hand, they want to have the people in-house, they want to sit next to them and have the advantages of being close and looking at the screen and having ideas bounce ideas off. People in-house, they want to sit next to them and have the advantages of being close and, you know, looking at the screen and and having ideas bounce ideas off. So that's what we do. Now we have, I think, five uh different agencies within in-house, uh yeah, within companies. Oh amazing. Prior to that, I used to play uh some music. Speaker 1: It's a double bass oh , double bass, okay, okay. So now listening to you, you just, I see you you're a builder , more or less like you. You have this thing for building and, uh, you build structures, you build teams and all that. So why, why are you so interested in building things as an in terms of looking at it from the corporate perspective, you love building things. Speaker 2: Why but it's actually . I think it's funny because it's it's. It actually comes from being very unstructured and working in a creative environment and everything was different new briefs, new tools all the time. And I think, like all creative people, I struggled with this imposter syndrome, you know, is it possible to do a great idea the next time, and so on. And I really noticed when I started at Maersk that we had so many campaigns we need to do from the marketing people and woke up in Tokyo, japan, and started filling in briefs to our global creative hub, to they went to bed in Los Angeles. We would just get swamped and if we didn't have a process for this, we wouldn't have the time to do. What I actually think is the fun stuff doing the creative work and come up with ideas. So it came out of a necessity to build structure, so we had more time to do creative work. And then I don't know I'm just curious, I guess, on how people work, how you set up a team that actually works well together, how you set up a team that actually works well together, how you, you know, by faster, diverse thinking, different people coming from different backgrounds or beliefs. Speaker 1: I just think it's really interesting All right, you know I was about jumping on that Like that's the next question and it just came out because, looking at the organizations you've been with, they are global, as in they are spread. How do you approach cross-functionalities, I mean cross-cultural identity, how to mingle all of them into one perfect, should I say ball and you have everything moving smoothly? How do you approach that? Speaker 2: So there are two things in that. I think the first one is to not try to be biased on anything. You know it's easy to say, but I mean it's a very conformed country I live in. Everybody looks kind of the same, or at least they did 20 years ago. Now it's a bit more diverse, but that also means that everything gets to be the same. Everybody's doing the same thing because we have the same cultural upbringing. So when you try to look for people who and I mean I'm not talking about skin color or men or women, it's more like also that, but it's also beliefs in are you a city boy or a farm girl, or do you come from a I don't know religious background or something, then you have a different perspective. So so that's the first thing, that's actually wanting it. I mean wanted to have different , because it's not easy. I mean it would be much more easy if we just are two, two clones of me sitting there and agreeing on everything. But I just don't believe that. That's how you, you, you invent new things or come up with new creative ideas. That's how you. You have to challenge each other. You have to come from different places. Some like some kind of music, some go to, you know, some kind of films or concerts and so on. So I think that's the first thing, that's wanting it, and then actually forcing people together by fostering a sense of belonging and respect in this room that everybody actually contributes, even though they are young or old or wherever they're from. Speaker 1: So recently I saw this report from Harvard Business School. They were looking at the ages within the work space now and apparently it's like those who are approaching the retirement age are spiking. Obviously the baby boomers and the generation next, as the case , who are approaching the retirement age are spiking. Obviously the baby boomers and the generation next, as the case may be, they're spiking. Then the younger ones who you expect to fill up the space and all of that, they are shrinking. So the question now is you need to think of how to rehire these ones who are 65 and above, bringing them back into the workspace and all that. So now I'm presenting it before you, you know as a builder of teams and all that. In such a scenario, how are you going to approach, you know, these changes and bringing that signage, so to say, between these generations to have an effective team? Speaker 2: well, we have maybe not 65 year old people, I have to say that but we do have some old like me, uh, creative people in the mid 50s coming in and that's people that's been around the block and some, you know, they've won their awards and they've done all their corporate bs and um and they just want to do the fun stuff. Maybe they feel just like I have I have a school on the side that I it just at one point you feel the, the, the urge to to share your knowledge or get challenged by young people, and so. So I think in that way we're really lucky that people want to come and work for us with, with experience, and on the other hand, you know people asked I mean it's not like when I started that you have to have this path, you have to go and you have to first job and then you move on. I mean people they take a lot of detours and start and do different things and come back and then they want to I don't know live in a van for a year and then they come back and do want to do corporate life and so on. So so I think if you, if you enable some ways of working where it's possible to say, now I'm going to tone it down, now I want to come back, can I have this role? And so on, and I'm pretty open about it. I mean it sounds easy, but then I think you will attract interesting people and in general, interesting people are more fun to work with. Speaker 1: Okay, now, if I hear you correctly, what I'm hearing is building like a corporate university or a corporate learning environment where you have the I wouldn't use the word old now but the very experience based on age and time. You have them, you now build them around the processes where the younger generation begins to learn from them. You know, they come, pour on them, give off, you know from their wealth of experience and all of that, and also the younger ones also learning from them. You know, because sometime in the early days of the internet, when I think that's what Jack Welch, now the great CEO of GE exactly when he came about the concept of reverse mentoring, where you have the younger ones teaching the older ones who are not used to computers, the internet and all of that, and somehow that has also changed because those of them at the time who were not used to the internet and the computer and now they grew up with it and all of that. So, but the technology, what we have now has, there's a jump to it. So they are now on the other end of should I say, the, the, the scale. They're looking like the older ones now. So I I think it's a good one. But now let us look at it now. You are in europe. What do you think from where you stand, considering, uh, the energy, uh changes we're experiencing now, you know, within the energy market. I don't know if you're used to the energy market uh, no, no, no , please, uh, go on a bit okay, all right. So now we're having this energy mix and all of that europe, uh, leading the way. Then then from Africa, we're still holding on to, yes, fossil fuel and all of that. But this is the question. This is what I want to ask Based on current realities, how would you approach building a team within the energy space in addressing this issue from your should I say point of view and experience? Speaker 2: Yeah, so here in Denmark, a lot of our energy is actually from windmills, so we have a lot of those. So I mean I'm actually pro-nuclear power plants but we don't have that for historical reasons. So we have a lot of solar energy and I think on windy days not today we can fuel our country by wind alone. So building I think it was a difficult question, sorry, I know. So building a team that works with energy in that way, I mean I think a lot of these inventions that have to save that we have to come up with in order to save the world actually , Because I mean we're not doing that great has to come from young people who try new things, and in that way I mean I'm in advertising, so I'm not saving anyone, but I hope some approaches, like you know, encourage risk-taking and learning from failures and allowing to do. We talk a lot about hypothesis testing. So I mean, when you do, instead of building a big power plant, start by testing. Can you do this in a really small scale? Can you know? You know, can you see what's happening? Can you change the scale a bit? Is it still working? And then share? I think it's a lot about sharing knowledge. Share your failure so we don't all have to do the same mistakes . I mean, in Africa you skipped most of your people. You people skipped the whole stationary computer and moved directly to the phone, because you didn't have to take that step and have those big octa machines on your. Of course you still have laptops and so on, but but in that way we don't always have to to take the same path, um to get there, um. So so by by sharing knowledge, I think is that's actually the best way to so. So find a way where you can, when you can document the things that you're testing and split it out. I don't know all right. Speaker 1: So, just picking back on what you said, as in bringing the learnings as an, okay, we'll in cause of our study of xyz, this was what we came up with and now we're sharing with you so that you don't, like you said, make those mistakes. Rather, it's like those steps are not really bypassed per se. But now I know, okay, when I get to this point, this happens, so I go across it and I move on . I think it's a very wonderful way to approach the subject. You know what we're just talking about now. Walk originally. You see things like silos and kovid came and all of a sudden the walls were broken down, barriers and all of that. You know we walk, walk from home and everything, and somehow we're going back. Now kovid is. I mean, this is, we've gone past kovid now. But some of us want to go back to pre-COVID, while a good number of us like, excuse me, I don't want to go back to that era, I want to go forward. So now, how do we deal with this from your standpoint, your experience? How do we deal with this? Going forward? How do we? Speaker 2: deal with this, going forward, creating what I call it a new workplace mindset. Yeah, I think there are good and bad things. I mean, I'm at home, which I am a lot, and I think working from home is amazing. Sometimes you can actually get things done. You can see your family for more time. You don't have to sit and commute. On the other hand I think a lot of you know it's it I think it's it's easier for for old people to do this because they don't have to, you know, develop that much. But in in my line of work, where it's very much you learn from the more experienced people, you are put together on a project with someone more experienced and then that's how you learn and you challenge them and they challenge you back. So in that way, I think we really need to be together and it's very difficult to sit like this and come up with creative ideas. I mean we can do it, but it's something happens in the room. I have to read your you know expressions. Yeah, exactly, and I think that's difficult when we sit like this. I mean we can do it, but more people, it's difficult. So in that way, I think we have to go back, but not necessarily going back to work and work from you know eight. What do you call it? nine to five nine to five yeah, um, I mean, it doesn't have to be like that. You can do it in a lot of different ways and and sometimes you can, you can, you can travel, uh, and and and see things and experience things in another way. So so I think, covid, I will never you, I think I will never say it was a good thing, but but we learned a lot from it. Um, and I don't necessarily want to go back back, but there are some things about being in an office again that actually works, but it also helped us doing this. I mean, I'm traveling less now. A lot of times you can, I'm more in my car traveling to. Denmark, but I'm not traveling abroad for just a meeting or something like that, and maybe that's also good for the environment, that I don't you know. Go to London just for a day or something like that, and maybe that's also good for the environment, that I don't you know, go to london just for a day or something like that. Um so, so some things are nice. We can sit and talk. We wouldn't have met uh else where, where I think uh I I'm not sure I'm would have been in nigeria, for in Nigeria for just a talk or a coffee. Speaker 1: But I don't know. Speaker 2: I'll drop by if I'm there. Very good, so I think. But I think for young people who have to learn in a working environment and I also think you have to, you know, learn how to socialize with other people in a workplace I think it's necessary to come back into the office and and be there yeah so, but but now for for coming back to the office space, would you say we we should look at it from the hybrid approach. Speaker 1: like, in a week you say maybe two times or three times, as a case may be, what do you think? Because Because for sorry for Nigeria, for example, a city like Lagos, the traffic can be killing sometimes, as in you can spend five, six hours, if not more sometimes. So imagine for such a city like that, bringing the coming back to that office space, but the approach from the hybrid, where you have maybe twice or three times or less, you know, just to help with all of that, what do you think in terms of commuting and all of that? Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's what I mean. I think. The hybrid, I think really works. And you also don't need to be in an office space all the time. You could meet with the co-workers other places. For me, it's just like being together, but you also need to come in and be together and see that everybody is working on the same thing and you don't go on a different path. If you're a developer or something like that and you just , you know, sit on your own thing and do yourself, but you, I don't think you necessarily need to come in every day from from nine to five and sit there in front of your computer in a cubicle. Um, for me, it's, it's, it's being together. That's the most important thing . So you could do that in another place, okay. Speaker 1: So I see a double bass behind you. So I want to believe you're musical, you love music, you play. Is it for professional or just for relaxation? Speaker 2: Now it's just for fun . But actually talking about structure and so on, I used to play in a jazz club in Copenhagen when I was very young and I was in the sitting-in band. So I was with a drummer who was really good he's still really good. I was merely getting along, but I was there and so we were the backbone. And then different skilled musicians famous or kind of famous jazz musicians came in and it was every Thursday night from, I think, nine o'clock till three in the morning or so, and we were still in school, so we had to go back and then they would play. You, you know, they would come up and say can you play autumn leaves, for instance, a minor or something like that, and we would be the backing band and then another one would come up okay but it actually leads a bit back to this. Uh, so I think in jazz there are like, I mean, there's a lot of songs, but but basically if you can do 40 or 50 of the standard songs, then you're actually pretty good. So that's kind of back to our structure, the way we work. We say we have a basic structure for everything we do. Sometimes there's a solo, so to speak, or now it's the drummer's turn to do some fun stuff, but basically we have the same structure for for everything we do in all of our agencies, all of our teams. So so having the the basics in order allows for creativity or stepping out sometimes. Speaker 1: So I asked? Yes, I asked you that question because I wanted to see how your play comes into your work and how your walk stems from your play, as in your play, jazz, or you're in the jazz band and you know that we have different parts that come together, you know, as in to to bring out the beauty, the music and all of that. So, but there's this understanding, telepathically speaking, so to say, you just like you understand when this person comes in, or when this person is meant to come in, and when I'm meant to go out, tune down and all of that, and it's very, very good. So how do you unwind? How do you spend your should? I say loom time. Speaker 2: I do this. I also bring it for the Christmas party or something like that, just to, you know, not to show off, but to show vulnerability, basically say I can do this that doesn't have anything to do with what I'm supposed to do. So that helps break up the barrier sometimes when the boss is playing the bass or something like that. So I did it once. Actually, I'm not that kind of guy. Oh, hear me. So that's one thing I do. Um, then I draw a lot. Oh, you do so. Um, yeah, I was actually looking . I think I I did a guidebook to copenhagen, but I don't have it here, which was kind of a thing. I was never a plan, it was just something I did on the, as a side thing, while I was, yeah, actually trying to do something else. And then I ended up drawing in my notebook and I had, I think, five or ten different drawings of sites in copenhagen. Then I thought it would be fun to do, uh, I don't know a guidebook which is I don't know what guidebook which is Guidebook. Yeah, so that's good. That's kind of how I'm on mine. Speaker 1: That's good. So now, working with a young team, you know what would your advice be? Your vulnerable moment? Because I see you're a keynote speaker also and say you were called to work with a young team pretty young. So what would your advice be? Speaker 2: I think I have a few things. So I mean faster collaboration. So find a way that people you know, and not competitions find a way that people can work together, um, and and, and and encourage that, uh, um, and then it's also, I think, um, as a creative leader, it's also, you know, sometimes getting getting in the trenches and actually help them. For young people, I mean, in my line of work, it's sometimes very difficult to say bad ideas, and in my experience, you need a hundred bad ideas to get a good one, so you just have to get started. But luckily, it's very difficult to come up with 100 bad ideas in a row if you really try. So for that, that's how I think . When you're a creative leader, or a leader who want to foster this, then it's about starting out. Or a leader who want to foster this, then it's about starting out. Just say a lot of bad ideas, because my really bad idea will maybe spark something in your head that's slightly better. And if you say that, then I can pick up on that and at one point, if we share all our bad ideas, we will come up with some . I really believe that we will come up with something great or even amazing. I really believe that we will come up with something great, or even amazing, so, and that it takes a lot of trust to actually , yeah, be able to share ideas. I mean, you'll be really vulnerable when you have to say a really bad idea, so that's the first thing I always do. It's like I don't know tell a bad joke or share five really bad ideas just to get things going. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1: You know that in quote is not a bad idea. So to say it's a learning cycle , or on that would I say, roller coaster, of learning how not to do this. I just discovered it 10 ways, but, like you said, before you even get to the 100th, you now understand, you have a good hold of it. It's like, okay, no, this is not how to do it and all of that that's amazing. And also not to paint that picture that, oh, that's bad, that's bad. But let them know. No, it's part of the process. You're learning and you, you could get better on this if, when you put in more effort, as it were, not no competition, but collaboration, I mean and I see it with with young people. Speaker 2: When you ask them to come up with something, they're really scared to share ideas, so they sit and wait until they have something that's good, but that takes forever, right? I mean, instead, if you share and you just say, okay, that's not good, go on, move on, move on, move on, then you will become better, faster, that's. I mean. I've seen it a billion times now. Speaker 1: Amazing, maybe a hundred times, guys, we've been discussing with Casper, you'll agree with me. I mean we're having fun Him sharing with us. You know the juice within building an effective team and the future workspace and all of that you know. So I mean I'm having a lovely time. So before I let you go, effective team and the future workspace and all of that you know. So I mean I'm having a lovely time. So before I let you go, I want you to you know, Tell my audience from your perspective, the future of work. What do you see for the future of work? Speaker 2: I think that it will become. I mean it's not a simply line work anymore, so I think it will be much more. I mean I hate the work life balance word, but I think in a lot of ways it's not like we should all do something that's fun. I mean we get paid to do what we do, but we should encourage people who like what they do and allow some freedom to say, the two of us we're going to meet up in a cafe or a walk for a couple of hours to get our brains working, so we don't have to be at the office all the time. And it's not about checking in like a factory. So I think the future of work is probably already here in some places, but it's more flexible. Probably already here some some places, but it's it's. It's more flexible. It's not about I mean we're not standing at a assembly line putting shoes together and that I mean a great idea can can come . I can come up with a great idea in in 10 seconds, but sometimes it could also take me five hours or or a week, so it doesn't make sense to measure everything in time. I mean if you do your job and it's valuable, then I think it's another way of working. It's another way of working, so you can work from home or anywhere, but I think it's important that you work together , that you collaborate Amazing. Speaker 1: Yes, I know, I said Does it make sense. It does, it, does, it does. I said last question but as you were talking, something just popped up and I said no, we need to hear that. You know, I wouldn't say recently, but say the last five years, the ai craze, you know, has been on the rise and some places you hear people expressing their fears or the AI or whatever, taking over our jobs and all that. But from the creative perspective which you have been, I want you to draw that should I say relationship or opportunities that the AI brings to works, to how we work and how we do things, because certain people are pretty apprehensive hearing the word AI alone, it puts them in that zone. Speaker 2: But I'm equally scared and optimistic and happy about it, and then scared again, but you have to embrace it, I mean. So we use AI in a lot of different ways. So we use it in the creative space. It's not doing our job, but maybe if you don't have to do 100 ideas, maybe if you ask AI, can you brainstorm 20 of ideas, and in my experience so far, the the 18 are rubbish, but two of them might spark something. So that's kind of your partner you're working with for. So that's uh the text, uh general tools like like aGPT or something like that. We also use it when we write content. We can use it to spark ideas like can you brainstorm? Why are people afraid of buying a Chinese electric car, for instance? Then you have 10 ideas for blog posts or something In that way, I think, having it as a partner, I use it as a spell check for a lot of things. Please proofread this text I wrote, and it's better at doing the commas than I am. Apparently we also use it for things that we wouldn't have the money for before. So that's doing mostly instructional films for one of our agencies. So let's say they want to teach plumbers how to install a certain kind of pump. Before they could only do it in English because that was what they had the budget for, and then they have to do a subtext? subtitling subtitle yeah, um, and now you can just go in and type give me this text in Spanish and it's it's very close to to perfect, and then you type in. You go to another tool and you type it in and it's the same guy talking. Now he's just talking Spanish and his lips are moving at the same time. So something like that. I'm actually giving a lecture in a couple of weeks, so I'm collecting cases right now because I'm not doing that much myself. Beautiful. So at that point I think it's amazing. On the other hand, I mean, it draws better than me now, it writes probably better music than I do and it doesn't make as many flaws when it plays. So I don't know, maybe I should just be pleased that I have to go on pension in a couple of years. Oh, 20, 30 years. Speaker 1: Good, good, good. Speaker 2: It's amazing, but it's also scary. Speaker 1: I can imagine. But just listening to the partnership aspect, you know it goes a long way to like, I wouldn't say, make your work easy, but rather give you more latitude to do more. Like you know, have more time and all of that. Wonderful Guys we've been discussing with Casper, you know , building an effective team. We've looked at so many things. You know building an effective team. Who've looked at so many things ? You know what's happening in the workspace, the future, you know what an ideal team should look like and all of that. The young and the old within that space, so much energy and all of that I have, you know. I mean, the discussion has been amazing for me, honestly amazing. And before I'll let you go one, this is one last question what's the future? Yes, what's the future for you? Speaker 2: like now, well, so far I mean in, in in our business. So far we've been focused on Denmark and Scandinavia and so on, but we are moving out. We are opening a new office in the UK. We have actually quite a big office in Vietnam with a lot of people, so I think we also want to expand that. So that's going outside our borders, working in languages that we're not native to. So I think that's really exciting. Then I am writing a book. I thought it was done and then I started reading it and it was so much rubbish so I have to redo a lot of it. But that's the process of it. So I'm writing another book on how to work with creative methods and so on and how to actually do this. So I think that's the near future. Maybe I thought the book would be ready by now, but it's going to be after some of them. Speaker 1: I know. Speaker 2: It takes forever to do this stuff, even with AI. To prove read, I mean still shit in, shit out. So if you it can prove it. Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with the grammar, it's just the content that I wrote okay, well , I wish you all the best, as in , you have something keeping you busy. So, uh, you have something to offer also in the nearest future . So happy for you and it's my prayer that it comes out well and when it's ready, please let us see it, let's, let's, let's get to you know, feel it, read it and also be part of that. All right, guys, it's been an amazing time with Casper on the World Cafe live show. You know how it is. Ordinarily I would have kept him here forever, but I need to let him go to do other things. But you know how we say it on the show. This is the space where we come in to lean on one another's experience, to forge a positive path Till I come your way again. Bye for now, kasper. Speaker 2: Bye for now. Thank you for having me. Speaker 1: Thank you, awesome time it has been with you on the world cafe podcast today. Thank you for being there. You can catch me up on my social media handles twitter, facebook, linkedin and instagram all at Amakri Isoboye. Also, you can get copies of my books A Cocktail of Words, the Color of Words by HRR Notebook and Hocus Pocus on God on Amazon and Roving Heights online bookstores. You can also subscribe to my YouTube channel at the same address at Amakri Isowe. I love to hear from you and how this podcast has impacted you. You can leave me a message at my email address, amakrigaribaldi at gmailcom. That is A-M-A-C-H-R-O-E-E-G-A-R-I-B-A-L-D-I . Yes, till I come your way again . Bye for now.